Simple GUI for Virtualmin

Virtualmin
41

I’ll weigh in here briefly. I agree with almost everything said in this thread – huge kudos to everyone involved in the development here; it’s a monstrous task and a true labor of love. It’s not perfect but that’s not from a lack of effort.

I migrated over from cPanel about four or five years ago, whenever their big price bump went into effect. I wasn’t a huge fanboi of cPanel but it got the job done, and the biggest hurdle was just learning the different terminology here.

On that terminology, I think the biggest point of confusion is the word “server”. Regardless of whether it’s correct usage or not, using “server” to mean any of these three things leads to massive confusion: 1) the physical hardware is a “server”, 2) the accounts, usually (always?) associated with a domain, are “virtual servers”, 3) the software packages running on the server are (but not always) named “a server”, i.e. “Postfix server”.

To me, a “server” is the thing I rent each month from my provider, and where I have Webmin installed to administer it. It is in fact a dedicated server, but of course this could also be a VPS. For simplicity – and because there’s little practical difference to the end user – this should always be the “server”.

I’m not sure why the community (being the tech community at large) has decided to also name software packages “servers”. Yes, they’re “serving” something, like mail or websites. But now you’ve gone and muddied the pot. Ditto for calling something a “Virtual Server”. When someone yells that their server isn’t working right, which of the three are they talking about? When someone tells you to check your server configuration, that can mean all sorts of things. Etc.

My recommendation is to rename “Virtual Server” into either “Domain”, or “Account”. Neither is completely accurate, but avoids the cross-talk confusion. I think Domain is probably the least confusing and most-readily identifiable with what it actually is.

As far as software goes, just eliminate the word “Server”. It’s not “Postfix Server”, it’s just “Postfix”. “Apache”. “SpamAssassin”. The category is “Software”.

Many of the menus in Virtualmin should be combined. The top section should be actions that you take on the Virtual Server (sorry, Domain) that’s selected at the top. Actions such as “Create New Domain” should be at the bottom, along with any options that will affect all domains. (The selector for the Domain should also be perhaps highlighted in a different color, to help visually illustrate that you’re making changes to this specific Domain). Right now under “Server Configuration” is “Website Options”, whereas under “Services” is “Configure Website”. All those options should be under “Domain Configuration”. “Services” is a word typically associated with “processes” and should be avoided, IMHO.

I think with a combination of renaming certain terms, as well as combining disparate functions under the same menu, could go a long way to making Virtualmin an easier-to-use experience.

Foul

42

@FoulFoot,

I always find this kind of discussion comedic, “server is the thing I rent each month”… The thing you rent each month is actually a “computer”, the software that makes a website “for instance” possible is actually the “server”… Apache is a “web server”, Postfix is an “SMTP server”, ProFTPD is an “ftp server”…

Anyways, I just had a chuckle when I read that…

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43

All true, and all semantics. However, in my experience, anyone using the word “computer” is referring to a personal computer in the home. Anything that’s in a rack is a “server”. Go into any business in the world and ask to look at their “server”… they won’t ask you, “Postfix or Apache?”

:slight_smile:

Foul

44

It does make for amusing conversations with clients. The people kind, I mean.

Richard

45

I think we could make an option that would let an admin choose which label to use, i.e. Domain vs Virtual Server. But this is debatable as well.

For example, Create Domain could also imply to “register a domain”.

And apparently we won’t be able to make everyone happy with terminology but making it optional, is technically possible. I am not sure about conjugation in all other languages but Virtual Server could easily become a variable in all our language and help files.

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46

I would not see it that way the verbs have two different meanings in the variant of English I speak ! But I would let the Admin decide through language strings as to what each options text contains … the onus is then taken off the vmin staff to decide what is shown. Down side of this support from vmin staff may get difficult if a domain owner is given this menu option “virtualmin->edit databases” where the domain owner sees “virtualmin->eat bananas” :grinning:

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47

Oh god, no! Not more options!
no-god-please-no

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48

Okay, that got a laugh out of me.

49

If you allow a comment from a user from the land of bananas (Brazil), I recently came from cPanel to this panel.
The reason for my leaving cPanel is obvious: the cost has gone up, a lot.
The reason I chose VirtualMin, over the other 5 or 6 I reviewed, was that it felt like a dashboard made by developers, for developers. I say this because the API is wide, and because of all I’ve seen, it’s the only API that lets you change the user’s password without asking for the previous password. cPanel also allows you to change the user’s password via api without informing the previous one. This seems obvious to me, because if a user enters my website and requests to change his password, most likely he doesn’t know the previous password. But it seems that this is not obvious to other panels that require you to inform the old password.
And when I choose something to wear, I wear the shirt. I don’t abandon it for any problem. By the way, your support team is very good and fast. They are concerned with solving bugs and providing solutions in the shortest possible time. I mention Jamie and Ilia in particular for having solved problems with importing cPanel accounts on New Year’s Eve.

I have 2 licenses (for 2 servers) and I’m still getting used to it, but I’m happy with how things are going.

I also had a problem with the look at the beginning, fear of losing customers who were used to the cPanel interface and planning to develop my own interface in Angular, taking advantage of the extensive API that you provide, but there were only complaints and withdrawals on the part of one single customer. May he rest in peace. :slight_smile:

I’ll continue with you, and I’ll keep warning you about the bugs I find and, if you allow me, also some suggestions for screens and administration adjustments that I miss or that would make it easier for me to visualize data.

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50

I can’t see how this allows the manager to increase PHP limits. ?

51

The worst comment I got was, “Oh, I thought it looked different.”

Richard

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52

Lastest cpanel interface is very confusing when you first login don’t you think?

53

I have had these thoughts too but it’s also a lot of work. Although, it would let to control presentation solely on the theme, which is good but it also means that each page should be re-created anew. Also, the problem is that Virtualmin CLI is only meant to be used by root-capable users. So, there is a lot to change to even be able to come close to a start for implementing this.

54

That’s exactly it, the bolded part. I was the same way when I first started out looking for an alternative. I actually looked for something that looked like and operated like cPanel because that was all I knew and the only thing I had experience with.

But as I wanted to do my own hosting, and began having to use Linux for the first time, I found as I did my research that what Virtualmin was doing seemed to make more sense in what I was finding in Linux - the nomenclature made more sense to me.

Granted, it took me quite a while to get a grip on both, and there’s still a great deal I don’t know, but after a few months and then a few years of Virtualmin and Ubuntu, I find having to deal with anything from cPanel tedious to deal with.

In the end, if one looks at how a virtual server is created, it’s all covered. You have to name the domain of the server you’re creating. You have to have a top level and sub server assigned to a domain name.

It’s all covered, and to me it all makes perfect sense once you go through it a few times. As somebody that for nearly a decade only worked in cPanel, I can tell you it is a challenge to work through it all as it’s all new and figure out what’s what.

But it all makes perfect sense once you get into it and figure it out. I wouldn’t change a thing.

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55

Yeah. And the last sentence is the key. “I wouldn’t change a thing”.

It ain’t broke. So, it don’t need fixin’.

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56

Yes, it’s going to be a lot of work, but I was thinking of starting with simple things, for personal use… and growing it as a hobby… using php as a backend api… Or, for learning purposes, using nodejs to get a second backend language as knowledge.

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I was thinking of starting with simple things, for personal use… and growing it as a hobby… using php as a backend api… Or, for learning purposes, using nodejs to get a second backend language as knowledge.

You don’t need neither PHP nor Node.js to do it. Besides, as I already mentioned Virtualmin CLI has to run as root. However, you could technically use Virtualmin Remote API with PHP and Node.js, but you would always have to send a root password in every call.

I think the best would be to use Webmin WebSockets for building a new theme. Although, neither ways are nor fast or simple (not even close).

58

I have had an experience with cPanel beforehand but using Webmin and Virtualmin was like removing the handcuffs (compared to cPanel and other panels).

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59

Hi,

Interestingly enough, it looks like cPanel may be moving in the direction of Virtualmin in terms of UI lately. I was just on their site the other day and almost was like, “Is this Virtualmin”? Heh Heh

They themselves are moving away from their classic “Windows Control Panel” look and feel (huge icons down the page).

Perhaps they’re trying to win back Virtualmin users… LoL

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60

But not as well. The “Jupiter” theme looks something like our beloved Authentic Theme, but the functions aren’t as sensibly nor intuitively placed.

cPanel caught all kinds of hell on their own forum and over at WHT with that theme change, with many or most of the complaints being of functions not being where a sensible person would expect them to be. But that’s always been the case. Most of the functions are still exactly where they were in Paper Lantern’s hierarchy.

In other words, the hierarchy didn’t change much, if at all. People are just now realizing how ridiculous it’s always been.

Richard

1 Like