Virtualmin vs CPanel - Part 2

Fortunately, now Virtualmin make a big change as part of my previous suggestions, 2 years ago :frowning:

Here, I list again Virtualmin vs CPanel (with some update) which not yet implemented by Virtualmin:

  1. File Manager:
    thanks, now Virtualmin don’t use Java Based File Manager! Things very2 fast now!

  2. Email format:
    Virtualmin by default use username.domain while CPanel use username@domain. 100% user write they email as username@domain why Virtualmin when configuring on Outlook use . (dot) instead @

  3. User my install Webmail and PHPMyAdmin manually:
    My idea has been broke/rejected by other users, the reason is security concern they said.
    Even Virtualmin Dev give us a way to make it manually, I like Virtualmin provide it by default. So, user can use http://domain/webmail automatically without to install it manually

  4. Backup
    Please provide more backup feature: in CPanel we have: daily, weekly and monthly which you can choose ALL! So, i.e: you can have 1 monthly backup with 2 retain backups + Weekly Backup with 4 retain backups.

  5. Centralized PHPMyAdmin
    This feature only part of WHM! So, root can browse (do any actions) to Cpanel accounts database

  6. BruteForce
    This is a complement for CSF (ConfigServer Firewall), they both work together. CPanel BruteForce provides more details when hacking occurred such as email address rather than only IP (CSF only report its IP). We still need CSF for advanced, that’s why both must installed.

The most important are:
Email Format, Webmail and PHPMyadmin (on user side, not the WHM part).

Rgds

While Plesk and cPanel are similar, Virtualmin and cPanel are not. First you need to understand that cPanel (like it or not) is industry standard and even i personally like more new Plesk 12 customers are used to cPanel.

Not sure if asking Virtualmin to be more like cPanel will do any good maybe if we finally get so long waited Virtualmin 2.0 then we could see where this control panel stands.

Frankly i would like to see Virtualmin to get “more like” Plesk (as i really hate cPanel) and i hope once the version 2.0 is out we can get close to that. Your ideas doesnt sound bad but i doubt it will make any change for Virtualmin. Regardless of numbers claimed by Virtualmin they are like grain of sand in the desert and if devs do not change their position nothing will change. Good for them as they will always make some money but not so good for Virtualmin users.

This is how i see things right now:

  • popularity: cPanel --> Plesk ----> DA —(others like ISPConfig)—> Virtualmin

  • industry standard: cPanel --> Plesk ------> Others

  • security: Plesk <-> Virtualmin --> cPanel ------> Others

  • what clients want: cPanel --> Plesk ------> Others

  • what i like: Plesk --> Virtualmin --> cPanel ------> Others not taken into account

  • offered options: Virtualmin <-> Plesk <-> cPanel (more or less all 3 are equal) ------> Others

  • best free CP: Virtualmin --> ISPConfig --> Others. I didnt test Ajenti but looks promising and what i saw it could become (or it is) a really good control panel.

P.S. Only new Plesk 12 taken into consideration as previous versions were not so good.

1 Like

Thanks for all your thoughts!

Out of curiosity, how might Virtualmin look if it were to become “more Plesk-like”? What would be different in that case?

-Eric

Thanks again for all your thoughts!

A few comments –

File Manager: thanks, now Virtualmin don’t use Java Based File Manager! Things very2 fast now!

We’re glad you like this one! This will become the default file manager soon.

Email format: Virtualmin by default use username.domain while CPanel use username@domain. 100% user write they email as username@domain why Virtualmin when configuring on Outlook use . (dot) instead @

All those modes are all supported, so it is indeed possible to tell Virtualmin to use “@” for all accounts. This isn’t done by default, as Postfix doesn’t technically support this. Some unusual hacks have to take place for this to work. They’ve been reluctant to make user@domain.tld the default, as having something “hacky” didn’t seem like the best way to ship the default Virtualmin configuration.

That said, I too personally prefer the user@domain.tld, and they have over time worked out the “kinks” in that particular mode. I’ll mention this again and see what the thoughts there are.

User my install Webmail and PHPMyAdmin manually: My idea has been broke/rejected by other users, the reason is security concern they said. Even Virtualmin Dev give us a way to make it manually, I like Virtualmin provide it by default. So, user can use http://domain/webmail automatically without to install it manually

Actually, this already works for webmail… you can go to webmail.domain.tld, and that will redirect you to whatever it’s configured to use.

You can configure the exact URL it uses in System Settings -> Server Templates -> Default -> Mail for Domain, though it uses Usermin by default.

Backup Please provide more backup feature: in CPanel we have: daily, weekly and monthly which you can choose ALL! So, i.e: you can have 1 monthly backup with 2 retain backups + Weekly Backup with 4 retain backups.

It’s possible to setup as many backup schedules as you like. You can configure that in Backup and Restore -> Scheduled Backups.

If you want something different than that, how might it look compared to the existing method?

Centralized PHPMyAdmin This feature only part of WHM! So, root can browse (do any actions) to Cpanel accounts database

You currently can use Webmin to manage MySQL databases. It’s also possible to install phpMyAdmin in any domain you like, and have root access that.

We generally suggest settings up a company-wide domain, such as yourcompany.com, and install phpMyAdmin into it. Then, have all your users access that central installation.

I wouldn’t mind seeing the ability to easily create a “mysql.domain.tld” alias that redirects to yourcompany.com/mysql though, I’ll bring that up at our next meeting.

BruteForce This is a complement for CSF (ConfigServer Firewall), they both work together. CPanel BruteForce provides more details when hacking occurred such as email address rather than only IP (CSF only report its IP). We still need CSF for advanced, that’s why both must installed.

There are indeed a lot of folks using CSF, though there isn’t built-in support for this at the moment. We’ll look deeper into that.

Webmin does have built-in support for Fail2ban though, that’s described here:

https://www.virtualmin.com/documentation/security/fail2ban

@Eric: Part of my post is based on overall people opinion and regardless if i like it or not this is by my understanding current situation. Not sure if you had opportunity to see new Plesk 12 but it looks great, its much faster than previous versions and probably even faster than cPanel (for sure is more secure).

I have one VPS for almost 1 year what i’m using only to test Virtualmin and i encountered several things what i didnt like. Sadly the list is not with me right now but i’ll try to remember what was on the list:

  • It comes with unnecessary software - For example during the initial setup when i’m asked for ClamAV and Spamassassin. In case i dont want/need this software it should never see my server and i must be able to remove or install at any given time without fear i will broke something else (please correct me if i’m wrong). Same for some other software like PostgreSQL and so on. It would be much better to strip down the default installation and then call it upon request/install. This is much better solution then to ship Virtualmin bundled with all kind of software and then turn it off if not used.

  • Clean install comes with bunch of log errors - This should not happen under any circumstances and there is no excuses for this even if is “only” theme errors (but is not only that).

  • Frequently obsolete software - For example fail2ban what was installed on Centos 7 was almost one year behind with updates even new, highly modified and changed, version 0.9+ was already available for this OS. Another example what comes into my mind is OpenDKIM.

  • Support - In short: too slow, bad forum software, almost non-existent community. Long version: There isnt any company what offer support for Virtualmin and you guys are too slow. If i pay for any software i expect to have fast support or i will not buy it. For example i pay for Plesk and separately to other company 30$/month for support. When i need something this guys answer to my tickets in less than 1 hour and usually everything (server, OS, CP, other main software like postfix, f2b, etc…) is done by them in just few hours (for minor things usually in 1-2 hours).

  • Cloudlinux - This is a must for any hosting and to have a server with many clients (20, 50, 100++) without Cloudlinux is big no. Actually without CL would be like begging for problems. Just this alone is enough to not use Virtualmin on production server with more than 20-30 clients. http://www.cloudlinux.com/solutions/forum/messages/forum16/topic877/message3781/?sphrase_id=287067#message3781

  • Software control - Right now some of the modules do not support all options offered by installed software or in case of manual editing there is big chance to overwrite everything by just pressing save. This happened to me at the end of 2014 with postfix. Even the change done in Virtualmin/Webmin didnt have anything to do with my manually edited options it deleted everything. Solution, make modules what would fully support all software options or make Virtualmin/Webmin capable to preserve manually edited options or just leave only some basic stuff and the rest must be edited manually.

  • Changing the settings - Sometimes its easier and faster for me to just turn on SSH or SFTP and manually change some options than use Virtualmin/Webmin. First thing to come into my mind is DNSSEC. I really tried to understand how to setup everything over this CP, spent hours looking around and then i just gave up and did everything manually. I was done in 2 hours and only because OpenVZ is not playing so good with /dev/random what i needed to generate the keys, especially for 4096 bit KSK otherwise it would be done in less than 15-20 min.

  • Price - To put it simple its unattractive and i dont like it. For your splitting the prices is complicated for me is more options to buy. But we already have this conversation and our opinions didnt come even close.

There is more but like i said i dont have the list right here so this is all what i can think right now. Maybe some stuff works differently on Pro version (even i dont think so) but i’m paying for VPS just to test this CP and right now i dont see any reason to go for bigger investment.

I updated the link from my previous post as it was wrong. Based on the Igror (CL admin) post from 2014:
We don’t plan to develop native plugins for Virtualmin, due to very small number of people using it.
I did provide Jamie couple of CL licenses years ago in case he would like to extend Virtualadmin to support CL.
Otherwise – it would still work, but all the controls would be command line.
is clear that this story around Virtualmin and CL is pretty old but you guys never accepted the idea to implement CL with your control panel. Sorry but by today standards to have a hosting what is not VPS or dedicated without CL is not acceptable. I’m not sure why in so long period you never take this opportunity to implement CL but i suspect this was a mistake because lack of vision (maybe i’m wrong) or you didnt expect that CL one day will become so popular.

Actually, this already works for webmail… you can go to webmail.domain.tld, and that will redirect you to whatever it’s configured to use.
Not like that. Let’s me explain. In CPanel this step provided by default.
Suppose you have 300 accounts, so you mus tell everybody to install Webmail! This situation same as PHPMyadmin case which I mention before.

Another IMPORTANT features:

MOD SECURITY

CPanel has included Mod Security, including: Install Vendor, on/off rules (currently 21 rules), log audit.
Log audit very usefull when you webiste blocked then you will see the reason (i.e: the website break rule #5).

CSF and MOD SEC INTEGRATION

When audit log above found any critical issue then CSF will take that info then block the IP automatically!
Suppose, you website injected by many spam comments then automatically blocked. I manage more than 2.000 cpanel accounts (more than 2.000 domains of course, because 1 account > 1 domains). This feature very2 usefull rather than check 1 by 1 if user already install new Wordpress or forgot to install Captcha. That is why CPanel – USED AS STANDARD IN HOSTING INDUSTRY

VIDEO DOCUMENTATION

When users ask me how to CREATE A NEW EMAIL ACCOUNT? Then I say click on the Video which provided directly on your CPanel account. Documentation is a simple things but become very2 important for non-technically users

VIRUS SCANNING

CPanel – Virus Scan: then we can choose which Object should be scanned, CPanel then will report the results, if found then: Quarantine, Delete or Ignore.

MENU SEARCHING

Login to WHM then at Left Above you have SEARCH BOX, type “Account” then you will see any Menu/Sub-menu according to that.
Virtualmin has this feature but the result slow and display redundant results.

BACKUP AND STATISTICS RACE

CPanel has feature where to not run Log Analysis for Statistic purpose, this is important to avoid race condition which Backup or may slowdown the Backup process.

WHERE IS SOFTACULOUS

I don’t understand why take many years but never done: Softaculous support for Virtualmin!
This guy since 2009 request it http://www.softaculous.com/board/index.php?tid=106 but never available.

As am experience developer, I think this caused by very difficult API of Virtualmin and of course lack of documentation. Virtualmin must open and provide details API so anyone can help Virtualmin. Virtualmin developer must actively talk to Softaculous developer to make a good progress.

ANYTHING ELSE?

I will write more or other users have any idea?
The purpose of this post is not blamed Virtualmin but want to make it the Best Hosting Panel. Virtualmin is free and I believe only Virtualmin right now still alive. Many free Hosting Panels has been die/freeze.
One day Virtualmin will be the The Industry Standard and replace CPanel, I hope.

As additional for above sugestions, here I remember again some:

VIRTUAL SERVER

When we want to create new Virtualmin Account then Virtualmin use “Create Virtual Server”, this VS term make confuse to users, especially user with VPS. Please user common term “Create Virtualmin Account” like CPanel does.

WRONG IP ADDRESS ON VPS

When you install Virtualmin on OpenVZ VPS then Virtualmin use 127.0.0 rather than VPS IP, we must fix itu manually. CPanel read the IP correctly

HOW TO CREATE EMAIL ACCOUNT?

Believe me or not, Virtualmin does have menu to Create Email! We must click on “Edit Users” then click “Add a user to this server.” this does not make sense!

Why Virtualmin say " … to this server" while above use Virtual Server (VS) term, that is why you need to use “Virtualmin Account” term.

Also, to avoid confuse thing, Virtualmin must have a menu to Manage Email: including Create Email Account, etc.

Remember that Email and FTP Account is a different animal on USERS SIDE! Even technically it is only about same user account with a small bit technically different config

Also, scroll down then you see Virtulamin has “Email Messages” menu to! Which contains:

  • New Mailbox Email
  • Updated Mailbox Email

EDIT, DISABLE AND DELETE VS

This make confuse to. You have EDIT VS menu then a new menu DISABLE AND DELETE which contains:

Delete Virtual Server
Disable Virtual Server
Disassociate Features

Why not a “MANAGE” then contains Edit, Disable and Delete inside

UNDERSTANDING WHM AND CPANEL

The success key of CPanel is CPanel have a very acceptable UI. In WHM we can go to user side menu called as CPanel.
In Virtualmin as root, we can not go to inside User menu directly.

Separate UI for root/admin and User very2 helpful to make things easier to manage and easier to understand by Users. Remember that Virtulamin is used by Users while Webmin used by root!

Install Scripts and Script Installers

Virtulamin have Install Scripts menu then scroll down you will see System Settings – Script Installers

VS Dropdwon and List Virtual Servers

We have a dropdown contains all VS then scroll down we see “List Virtual Servers” menu too!

Edit Databases vs PHPMyAdmin

Please remove “Edit Databases” and replace with PHPMyAdmin. The native “Edit Databases” lack of many features
and very2 bad UI.

Why should write “There are too many tables to display” while you can use PHPMyAdmin with a paged page (show 25 tables on page #1, then next 25 tables on page #2, and so on)

Account Plans

Virtualmin actually some time used ACCOUNT term rather than VS term. Chekout under System Settings menu you will find menu called as: Account Plans!

File Manager Bug

We thanks Virtualmin replace the slow and hard to install (because conflict witch Java) old File Manager with new File Manager, but need some improvements:

  • Uncompress: this feature gone on new File Manager

  • Icon with Title: better to display Title on each icon rather than mouse-hover

  • Chmod: the gear icon commonly used by “settings” please replace

  • Add Bookmark and List Bookmark: useless, please remove

  • Select All icon: commonly is using a CHECKBOX on top of list, please replace

  • Copy Selected: replace with COPY only is enough, because we already have a check box before

  • Cut Selected and Remove Selected: see Copy Selected

  • Upload and Get from URL: why not use Upload and Download term? When we click “Get from URL” then contains Download feature

One day Virtualmin will be the The Industry Standard and replace CPanel, I hope. Let’s works Virtualmin team!