The subject of targeted donations recently came up. It would be helpful to have a system whereby a particular feature request could be funded with contributions which are not received until the feature is completed. That way the programmer(s) would know if the time investment was worthwhile before addressing the user’s desires.
It also engenders more user involvement as well as creating a better reputation for the software. Responsive programmers are always appreciated across the board.
I think it’s a good idea. I’m not sure about how to implement it yet, but I think it’s doable too.
I think we should start by creating a relevant forum category where people can create and vote for different new features.
Like a mini Kickstarter.
Is there not an open source software that will do this?
Yes, good ideas. But how do we handle donations on a pledge basis?
I’m all for Developers getting paid for their work, that is why I pay for Pro
Are we talking about forum features or features to be added to Virtualmin?
Software development in general.
And contributors need to be able to donate anonymously.
I would just hope that Virtualmin would not get reputation as if pay for Pro must also pay crowdfunding if we want features/enhancements made
Like I said I’m 100% for developers getting paid for their time and work.
Why not? If the customer wants a feature, why not pay for it? Isn’t that the normal way to get things done?
Depends on the context
since here we are talking about an already established business model making new features paid by already paying customers could be a negative.
If the vote was for a new shiny feature that would be click and done and far superior then anything on the market it can be an end users view, such as I paid for Pro now they want crowdfunding to enhance what I paid into?
Could be viewed as also a positive as yes I want that and I want to pay for development of this.
I’m just saying it is a decision of course that the Dev team will have to make but I just would not want Virtualmin to get the reputation as want more then what you paid for then crowdfund us
Just my 2cents
I think the idea would be that if some group of people really wants a feature, they can vote with their wallet for it to be implemented. If sufficient funds are committed to pay for it, it gets developed and probably released for everyone. Not that you’d have to pay for specific features on an ad hoc basis (we’re not equipped to deal with fine-grained licensing and don’t really want to do the “nickel and dime” model a lot of software uses)…if you don’t want it enough to pay extra to make it happen, you can just wait and hope it makes it to the front of our development queue.
We’d want to be specific about whether something is being developed for GPL or Pro-first. If Pro-first, the cost for us to be willing to commit to something would be lower than for GPL, since we’d have a new feature that could encourage others to upgrade to Pro. That feels kinda bad, though, but it’s reality. It’d be crazy to commit serious developer resources to some major feature for a few bucks. At least if we release to Pro first (with our usual plan to eventually release it to GPL, unless there’s a good reason it needs to remain Pro-only) we probably get some extra revenue from it, as well as the bounty.
I am ambivalent about it, is what I mean to say. Ideally, we’d just sell enough software to pay decent wages to the folks working on Virtualmin, and we wouldn’t have to micromanage special projects.
But, I can see the appeal of having a way to really know what people want. It’s easy for the squeaky wheel to get the grease as it currently stands. Historically, we have sometimes implemented stuff just because one person mentioned it. Sometimes it’s fine, but sometimes that bites us all in the ass when it turns out to be a poorly thought out idea with negative side effects. Or, maybe it just adds complexity for a feature that literally only one or two people ever use.
A system where features have to get at least a few people willing to pay hard-earned cash to make it happen at least proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that people really want it. It also gives it a chance to be hashed out in public with real stakes and provides motivation for someone to sketch out what they want in terms of UI and behavior and many eyes to look at it and make suggestions for improvements. I like this aspect of it, not really even because of the money. Money is just the stakes to make it work. When you do a poll without any cost, you don’t really get a measure of people’s priorities. People think hard about spending money, especially with the economy being what it is right now.
In short: I don’t know if I like it. I see some reasons it’d be really nice to have. But, I also feel weird about some of the possible effects on how people think about Virtualmin and the development process. There are tons of things that make good software that could never receive targeted money like this…a hundred documentation updates does not inspire a Kickstarter, but takes many hours and improves the product forever for most users.
So you would pay $xk for a feature?
I don’t think offering $50 for a new feature is going to pay for anything.
That’s actually the reason this would be useful (if I understand what’s being asked for): A lot of people would need to commit to the feature being a good one, and worth paying for. It spreads out the cost, while proving many people really want it.
$50 from 100 people starts to look like real money. The kinda money that can pay for a feature to be implemented, tested, documented, and deployed.
Damn straight!
First, the idea of creating a mechanism is important. In fact, it would be a handy add-on to the Virtualmin scripts.
Second, paying for Pro does not stop the need for additional features or for paying to get bugs fixed faster. Desirable improvements are always worth something in any program. That’s just fair.
That’s a me insight
Nothing stops the need for software to keep evolving, Paid Pro or not.
Either a project moves forward or it is abandoned.
As I stated above I’m only giving my perspective as a user of the product.
Ultimately the dev team has to decide on how they proceed.
So if something is funded and then needs drastic overhaul in the future there will be another crowdfund movement?
If I pay for something and it is implemented and then I get a notice that crowdfunding is needed or the feature will go stale then as a user I will have a different outlook on the product.
Short of having one entity willing to pony up for something specific I don’t think it works just because site traffic doesn’t support the idea of pooling money for a feature. Lots of users. Lots of people signed up to the site. Lots aren’t. Most only come when something goes wrong they can’t figure out on their own. Maybe if you introduce more bugs to drive traffic? 
Cost to try is low I guess.
Also true. The number of folks here is tiny compared to our user base. Ilia asked me to figure out our active users recently and it’s something like 165,000 active installations of Virtualmin (that we know about, that excludes at least some installations, since there’s a variety of ways to get the software without hitting our download servers…so, it is at least 165,000 servers running Virtualmin, but it’s probably at least a few thousand more, maybe as much as 50k or 100k more). The forum only sees a hundred or so logged in users on any given day, and maybe a couple thousand in a month.
Still, that’s a couple thousand people every month, which isn’t nothing. If there were some feature a bunch of people wanted and that we wouldn’t/couldn’t do without some funding, I’d guess that feature could get seen by enough people, maybe?
I dunno. We’d also have to implement the tools for managing and accepting money for a kickstarter like thing, which isn’t nothing. And, we’d have to do some kind of task tracking to make sure what people paid for us to implement gets implemented in a way that satisfies requirements. Again, not nothing. Project management of that sort is a pain in the ass.
Yes, absolutely. The item number one I mentioned may not be easy, but it must come first. However, project management need not be a big deal if the mechanism is properly automated. Of course it may be difficult to implement. (Would it help that the whole industry needs it?)
Honestly, in the 2 or so years I’ve been hanging around, billing seemed to have the most general interest. I guess the Wordpress thing was nice surprise for those that could use it.
Maybe a permanent banner topic for proposed projects could get seen by enough people given time? Blurb on the download page? An occasional push to the WM/VM GUI? At least once initially and then quarterly? Totally fair on the GPL. I doubt PRO would complain if it wasn’t to often and too spammy.
Trade PRO licence credits for code submission help?
It still comes down to the eyes on it. It’s always been a little puzzling the project doesn’t get more support than it does.
Yes, that’s true, isn’t it. It is one of the best, of not the best, solutions to automating the server creation process.
Probably because there is little difference between the GPL and Pro versions for most users.
I don’t need Pro, but I pay for it because I want to offer some support. That’s also why a lot of us participate in this forum, to learn and to give something back.
I would be happy to pay more for my Pro, 50%, 100% increase - still small money for a working business. At a guess, a 50% increase in revenue would be more useful than the work in managing targeted donations vs the income derived.
Also look at some limits for GPL, I know it’s a great ambition for it to always be free, but if you lose even one staff it could be a fair hit given how good they all seem to be and how integrated into the project you all are.
Does it really need to be free for those hosting more than 100 domains?