I wish a GPL plus Version

I dont use the full Pro version. Got only one Server, no need for DNS sync or Backup MX.
But some more install script would be nice. On my wishlist would be Nextcloud and Mediawiki.
DNS sync with Cloudflare would be nice too, as Cloudflare has a free DNS service.
But going full Pro is not really an option. Only 10 Domains… I use a differnt Domain for wiki, blog and so one and not using folders under the Domain like domain.tld/wiki/, domain.tld/blog/.

Maybe cut down on mail Domains on a plan like this. 5 would be enough.
And one time payment… I would pay 150€ for sure for this.
And oh yeah not everyone got a CreditCard… What about bank wire transfer. Is that paymen method used in the US at all?

150 euros will get you an annual license with 50 virtual servers / domains if not more.

The OP is after a one time payment not a reoccurring one

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This is a limitation of most web transactions. I think the main reason is ease of setup AND it provides both parties with a dispute resolution option. Also wire transfers start being a security nightmare for small operators when you are giving out banking information. For an operation the size of the WM/VM team, may not be worth it.

mid tier option with encrypted backups would be nice.

I dont care for much about the script installer, while very convenient, not a must have IMO.

Also there are things like rainloop in there instead of snappymail which is odd, since rainloop is EOL long ago.

but roundcube is available and very good anyway.

a real killer feature would be automatic docker container deployment with autoconfig for proxy paths.

payment with cc is normal.

IBAN/SEPA would be an option mostly in europe.

This has come up recently. Any EOL products should be reported to the staff.

We used to offer a lifetime license for $999. But, we don’t do that currently (and if we did, it’d have to be more expensive now).

We try to make GPL better with every release, and we bring things down into GPL from Pro over time. The GPL release from yesterday has more Install Scripts than the previous one (added ClassicPress, a WordPress fork), for example. But, I’m extremely leery of making a lifetime commitment to maintain a whole bunch of frequently changing stuff for a small up-front payment.

The install scripts are one of the things we definitely can’t do in a one-time transaction, unless that transaction is quite large. We have ongoing maintenance costs for those, as new application versions come out, installation processes change, security issues come up, etc. It’s also one of the main reasons people buy Pro. If we offered a cheap “forever” license for that, I suspect it would dramatically cut our Pro revenue that we pretty desperately need to keep developing all of Virtualmin.

So, there’s been a couple decades of work in the past to get Virtualmin where it is and it works great for a lot of people today and there is a tendency for people to think, “This does everything I need today, why am I paying for it every year when I don’t need it to do anything else?” But, we can’t stop in place and just sell what we built and call it profit. We’re building software that sits on the open internet and is the target of vast resources trying to exploit it.

Even if our software is pretty sturdy (and it is historically pretty sturdy, though there have been exploits in Webmin and Virtualmin, too) and does everything you want, if we stop working on supporting new OS versions, new Apache/nginx/Mariadb/etc. versions, a whole lot of servers will get compromised at some point in the not-too-distant future. We can never call it “done” and take a break from development.

So, if we sell software for a one-time cost, at some point, we’re working entirely for free. I’m not independently wealthy, and I’m getting older without a lot of retirement savings. I can no longer afford to work for free. I’ve done so for many years, and I guess the OSS community has come to expect that sort of loyalty from people working on projects with a long life, but living in poverty for OSS ideals isn’t very appealing at my age.

Anyway, my position has always been that the things that won’t trickle down into GPL are things targeted at making money (reseller accounts, some delegation and scaling features, etc.) and things that require ongoing maintenance. Install Scripts will always be labor intensive, so I don’t see a way to extract them into a product or project that doesn’t make some recurring revenue. Cloud services fall into “scalability”, though they also happen to be convenient for smaller users, so that one feels like a hard call. It’s possible more of the cloud features will trickle into GPL, eventually.

If we were rich and making tons of money via some other revenue stream, we’d give away more and maybe we could find some way to offer a “once” kind of license, but as it is, we don’t make enough money to pay everyone a decent salary (Jamie and I are mostly volunteers and have been for years, and Ilia is very underpaid). I understand where you’re coming from, and I find this (https://once.com/) an appealing idea, and I’ve tried to figure out how we could offer products like that. But, we don’t have any SaaS services bringing in millions of dollars to prop up revenues, like 37Signals do. That’s (SaaS) something we’re considering for the new year as an attempt to resolve our perpetual revenue problems.

Pro subscriptions are probably too cheap, as it is, and they’re definitely a lot cheaper than cPanel or Plesk. A cheaper one wouldn’t be sustainable from a support burden perspective. I think it’s the lower bound of what we can afford to support…so, if we offered a “smaller Pro” or a “GPL Plus” it’d have to be the same price as Virtualmin Pro for 10 domains and I guess we’d have to raise the prices of all the other stuff. Note that $150 will currently cover two years of a Virtualmin Pro 10 domain license, and that includes unlimited support…which is time I bill at $150/hour if doing it as a contractor. Honestly, every time someone asks for cheaper licenses, I go through the math and realize we don’t charge anywhere near enough. There’s a reason our competitors charge separately for support incidents, I guess.

Unfortunately, wire transfers are costly and complicated in the US (you may note that no US company will accept a wire for anything less than several thousand dollars, I think it’s $3000 minimum for Red Hat, for example, because of the cost of doing business that way in both time and money). We currently accept PayPal and all major credit cards.

So, I guess the summary is: GPL already does more than several of our commercial competitors, and it gets better with every release. We reserve some things for Pro, as a way to encourage people to fund development of all of our Open Source projects. A one-time payment is untenable for software that requires a lot of ongoing maintenance and support, without some other revenue stream to cover costs.

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This has shaken me a bit.

I understand it needs to be a a recurring payment.

I will get pro this weekend, not out of necessity but appreciation and to encourage to carry on :slight_smile:

I have seen many companies offer lifetime licenses, it never ends well for the company or in the end for the customer.

Don’t even consider doing these one time licenses :smiley:

I can only think of one case where a one-time license seems to be OK (but only OK, not, like, amazing) for customers, and that’s FL Studio. I admire them for making a lot of DAW power available for one low price, but they’ve also had to play tricks with the product to keep revenue flowing. Going from Fruity Loops to FL Studio, and then releasing new product tiers every few years. It’s not a bad deal, but it’s sort of an illusion that you never have to pay for it again. If you want to keep using the latest features and such, you’ll probably end up upgrading at some point. I don’t think that’s a bad thing, I think people should get paid for good work! But, it’s not really true that it’s a one-time cost.

So, I think it’s probably better for everyone to be up front about it: It costs money, quite a lot of it, to maintain and improve and support software, so let’s (users and developers) try to work together to keep the developers in food and houses while providing a good product at a fair price. Until we defeat scarcity and can all have our needs met without having to work 40 hour weeks, sometimes on stuff we may not want to work on, everybody has to make a living somehow.

There’s also things like REAPER, which is also a very generous deal, maybe the best bargain in professional DAW software. The price is relatively low (I think $60-$350), and you pay it every couple of years, when they release a new version or when you want to upgrade. Blackmagic Design also offers an incredible deal on Resolve (they have a free version and a couple tiers of commercial versions, that are quite affordable compared to other pro-caliber options in the category).

DAWs and video editors have it a little easier. They have a lot more users than something like Virtualmin, and they don’t have to worry so much about security. If you run an old version of FL Studio or REAPER, you probably aren’t going to get owned by Russian or Iranian hackers.

Anyway, I can honestly say we’re doing everything we know how to make a good product at a good price. This is just a tough industry with a crazy amount of competition.

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I was using different control panel and switched to virtualmin only because of it is free. However the more i explore it, more i fall in love. i find it is amazing. The control it gives is beyond imagination. i personally use it for WordPress so my requirement would be everything around it including backup.

it would be difficult to offer a custom or feature specific license which will create conflict with level of users with features they own in different plan.

I feel sad now not paying for pro considering i am not making any money right now. It is all for my personal projects. I think even free version worth a donation.

i wish i earn enough to buy 100s of virtualmin licenses. i currently run it on 10vps and buying licenses would be costly for me. However i appreciate all the work devs are doing. it is sad it is not popular as cPanel.

Even the forum support is superior, imagine the pro one.

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I’m also ALWAYS looking for a deal… and if someone offers a “lifetime license” I tend to pay the extra $$ and get it… but too many times… they go out of business and I lose…

I had been using PLESK (20 years ago) and one day they forced an update which broke my server. I was in tears all night trying to get it working… which is why I moved to Virtualmin. They don’t FORCE me to update my OS…

And I, too, used the GPL version for a few years… and was SO SATISFIED that I bought the PRO with just 10 domains to help these guys to NOT go out of business.

One day, installed the PRO on a test-bed server, and that was it… I got so hooked on the extra features, so I upgraded to a 250 and have NEVER LOOKED BACK… I depend on Virtualmin and want those updates to keep ME in business. And the RESELLER options in PRO made my resellers life much easier, too!

As many of you know… I love these guys… and encourage you all, even if you’re GPL only, to buy a PRO license, even just the 10 domain license at 7.50/month… and do the annual payment, only $75/year… I spend more than $6.25/month on everything else… my cell phone, my gas, my food, my clothes… just call it a yearly $75 birthday present to VIRTUALMIN !!!

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I don’t want anyone to feel like we’re upset about people who use GPL for free. We work on Open Source software because we want people to use it! We like being part of the Open Source and Free Software community. We aren’t starving (we have other jobs that make sure we aren’t starving). If you’re in a position where it’s uncomfortable to pay for Virtualmin Pro, we aren’t asking you to! Use GPL unless and until you find yourself in a position where paying for Pro isn’t a burden.

I’m just trying to be transparent about how the economics of Virtualmin works (or doesn’t work, as the case may be) as a product. I’d love for everyone’s needs to be met in this world, regardless of the work they do, but we don’t live in that world. We live in a pretty cut-throat world where a lot of very wealthy people hold a lot of the levers of power and it seems to keep getting harder for regular folks to get by.

If Virtualmin made enough money to support all of us, I’d be able to work full-time on it, and that’d be cool. But, I’m not struggling. I do OK now that I have a full-time job that isn’t Open Source software. I’m not asking anyone to tighten their belt for me.

I’m just hoping everyone understands that Virtualmin (or any other Open Source software) doesn’t happen for free, it’s decades of work. We’re charging far less than any of our competitors (at least the competitors that are actually in the same league in terms of features and capabilities and security history and stability), and we’re giving away most of it for free. It’s not a smart business, but I think it helps people and helps make the world better by allowing more people to build and host their own websites.

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There used to be a ‘pro’ forum but it was discontinued and moved to this forum a combined pro & gpl forum

Not quite right.

There used to be an issue tracker for Pro support. Now we use PMs here in this forum, with tags for status (instructions for filing Pro support questions can be found on the Support page). There’s never been a Pro forum, but there has always been a private/separate way to get support for Pro products and we do prioritize support for Pro customers (but we try to support everyone).

A “lifetime” payment - but…

Some of us are there even well beyond there already - lifetime is easy to put in some sense of reality for some but for others each day is a bonus.

I don’t know how you do it.

You don’t :wink:

You mean 15K€ (Thousand) when you talk about 1 Time payment isn’t … ISN’T ?

How do you would like the Virtualmin team to be sustainable if they was cheaper of what they already offer. They are already the cheapest on the Market (With so much features). Come on, You want to ruin them ?

Please be serious 2 Minutes. 150€ Even in country where salaries are low it’s like 5 Days of works (10 in the poorest countries). So a 1 time payment and that’s it … It’s impossible

A big shoutout to the Dev Team for the amazing product and support!

We are based in New Zealand and have been Pro users for a few years now, and we truly believe the Pro License is essential. We primarily use it for VPS management and hosting WordPress sites through Cloudflare. It offers flexibility, performance, and pricing that other providers can’t match.

We use both Divi and Elementor page builders. Divi offers a lifetime pricing option for their core builder, with additional features available as paid annual add-ons, while Elementor doesn’t offer that. I’m not sure if Divi’s model is relevant to what is being discussed here, but I thought I would throw this into the mix.

One final thought: Is there a way AI could be utilized for handling non-Pro support inquiries, hopefully freeing up your time? We tend to use it to gain insight into issues we are addressing in Webmin/Virtualmin before reaching out to support.

Keep up the great work ! :slightly_smiling_face:

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Too many variables for AI to be effective here, in fact in quite a few cases AI can send you down the wrong path and becomes a ‘pathological’ liar

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