Having issue with SpamAssassin?

[SidedTech]

I am running a new install of Virtualmin, and in the past, I was able to go to Webmin > Modules and install the SpamAssassin Module, or there was some way to install it, without having to do the full installation. One support person has told me “Not possible” and the other said the opposite “Yes, things can be installed after initial install” which I know is true because there are MANY different methods to do so, and I thought SpamAssassin Module was one of them, and I am pretty sure it is.

I thought about doing a depreciated one like here “https://spammin.sourceforge.net/”

But this one is heavily out of date, and wanted to do something newer, but would do the out of date one if it would work.

Any help would be great, minimal install and then adding SpamAssassin is much easier than full install, and then removing 20 things.

Thanks!

[Stegan]

Please Give everyone some idea of what you are attempting to run by completing the requested information.

SYSTEM INFORMATION
OS type and version	REQUIRED
Webmin version	REQUIRED
Virtualmin version	REQUIRED
Related packages	SUGGESTED

Note: spam filtering is set up in Virtualmin when you add a VS and is managed under Server Configuration -> Spam and Virus Delivery Why anyone would even contemplate taking anything back to an earlier “out of date” version of anything beggars belief to me.

[Joe]

@SidedTech

I was able to go to Webmin > Modules and install the SpamAssassin Module, or there was some way to install it

The Webmin module for SpamAssassin is not SpamAssassin. It is the module that manages SpamAssassin, and it is already installed (unless you removed it explicitly). Installing it is not a useful thing to do.

If you installed Virtualmin using the --minimal flag you would have not gotten the full mail processing stack (as covered in the install docs), but you can install SpamAssassin (not the Webmin module, which is already installed) using your system package manager. You’ve opted not to tell us what operating system you’re using, so we can’t give you specifics.

@SidedTech

I thought about doing a depreciated one like here “https://spammin.sourceforge.net/”

Why the heck would you think about installing an unmaintained random package from 20 years ago? That’s not a reasonable thought.

[SidedTech]

I am on Ubuntu 22.04
Latest Version of Webmin 2.10108060951 and Virtualmin 7.7

And the reason I would install an old package, is because packages can be updated? I was able to find the module @ Index of /download/modules

Now I did install Minimal, as I said in the OP “minimal install and then adding SpamAssassin is much easier than full install, and then removing 20 things”

Telling someone else what’s reasonable when they are trying to figure out why they can’t perform a function they normally were able to do up until a few months ago, maybe a year, is not the best option either. It’s a fine package, just because it’s not updated, doesn’t mean it will damage the system or prevent me from updating it?

Also I have backups, if anything was to go wrong. However I am guessing the fix I used in the past is no longer applicable, and I cannot install a Virtualmin module for spamassasin? The webmin module worked, and is working now, but the SPAM AND VIRUS DELIVERY section is missing of course.

Thanks in advance.

[Joe]

@SidedTech

Now I did install Minimal, as I said in the OP “minimal install and then adding SpamAssassin is much easier than full install, and then removing 20 things”

Apparently not.

@SidedTech

Telling someone else what’s reasonable when they are trying to figure out why they can’t perform a function they normally were able to do up until a few months ago

You installed the --minimal version of Virtualmin. It doesn’t have SpamAssassin or ClamAV. That’s pretty much the difference between the two (I think we also exclude some analytics and other minor stuff. But, the big ones are spam and AV.)

I know our software and I know installing a 20 year old unmaintained Webmin module is not going to do anything useful for you. And, no, it won’t update…it’s unmaintained…that is not our SpamAssassin module, I don’t know anything about that module, but I can see the last release was 20 years ago. And, I know that module doesn’t integrate with Virtualmin (it predates the existence of Virtualmin, or close to it).

I’m just trying to help here. You already have the SpamAssassin Webmin module (the one we support and that works with Virtualmin). What you don’t have is SpamAssassin. Because --minimal doesn’t install it. (See docs: Automated Virtualmin Installation – Virtualmin)

You can install it yourself using apt install spamassassin spamc

I’m just a bit frustrated you’re sort of coming at this like we broke something that used to work…you chose an installation that does not have SpamAssassin.

It’s not a big deal, you can install SpamAssassin, but it would be easier if you’d let Virtualmin do it for you, and then disabled the one thing you didn’t want (ClamAV, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to not want, as it is huge). Or, if you’re comfortable with installing software and understand how the pieces fit together you can do it as custom as you want.

[SidedTech]

Again, this isn’t personal, it’s simply a question.

If you say things like “Well, you wanted minimal, you got it!” and telling people they aren’t being reasonable for looking for modules, etc (it’s a WBM module, so it didn’t predate Webmin) and then getting ‘frustrated’ is all something that taking these things personal do. I am just a person asking a question on a forum of how to do something I did before, and that’s all.

So if it’s not possible to add “Spam and Virus Delivery” anymore to the minimal install, that’s fine, just say that, but your feelings are yours, and I didn’t speak to you directly at any point other than to respond to your response. Try to maintain that understanding with people in the future. No one said you broke anything, no it’s not unreasonable to use Webmin modules with Webmin, and being frustrated because you don’t understand my question is OK, but putting words in my mouth isn’t.

---

I think it’s fine that Virtualmin can’t install SpamAssassin after the fact, but I needed to be sure. It sounds ridiculous that there would be no option to do so, but that’s me, and my opinion, and I didn’t even say that until now.

My question, without all the unnecessary fluff and weird blame game circling (which I never did) was whether SpamAssassin HAD to be installed in advance, because SOMEHOW, I was able to do so before, using minimal, and then getting spamassassin to work. Maybe I’m wrong? Either way, such a weird way to answer, and I never once “came at” anyone.

Simply asking if something is possible does not denote the lack of working functions in a piece of software. I write software, I get questions all the time. Instead of telling people my feelings or attacking them by calling them unreasonable, I just answer the question (and correct them or possibly add the feature later on)

If this seemed like I was asking anything other than “Can SpamAssassin be applied AFTER OR DURING minimal install”

…because I don’t want to reinstall the whole server and sites, is a normal question, and now anyone Googling it will have the answer, and a BUNCH of unnecessary text from us both!

But to clear it up, a question is not blaming someone. Asking if a feature exists is not blaming someone, and saying “I used to be able to do it” could be bad memory, but certainly isn’t blaming anyone.

Virtualmin is the only panel I would ever use, I just noticed the minimal install runs a lot cleaner than the regular one, and not just ClamAV, the # of processes and a few other items that would take too long to explain are also part of that.

Thanks.

[Joe]

Sorry, you’re right. I got grouchy. I’m trying and failing to not take things so personally. I’ll keep trying.

[SidedTech]

So there’s really no way for me to get the Spam & Virus delivery added afterward? (lmao)

My best bet would be to reinstall everything from scratch? I had an issue with the backups once, and now I’m scared.

You’re not grouchy, I understand what it’s like when people ask questions, and it sounds like a complaint, I get on top of it too. My git is filled with anger lol

[Joe]

@SidedTech

So there’s really no way for me to get the Spam & Virus delivery added afterward? (lmao)

I told you how to install SpamAssassin above.

After installing it, you just need to enable the spamassassin service, and enable the Virtualmin spam Feature in Features and Plugins, AFAIK.

[Stegan]

@SidedTech

Telling someone else what’s reasonable when they are trying to figure out why they can’t perform a function they normally were able to do up until a few months ago, maybe a year, is not the best option either. It’s a fine package, just because it’s not updated, doesn’t mean it will damage the system or prevent me from updating it?

@SidedTech Apologies I was rather abrupt with my response. But the requested information really is there for a reason to help other users of this forum to help you.

Of course what ever system you use is very much your choice. But the choice of using out of date and unsupported additional packages brings with it a high risk of introducing bugs and often severe compromises into core systems. These packages are unsupported for a reason. If you choose to start from a “minimal” installation, again from choice, there are going to be bits missing and that is also confusing for the probable majority of others here that have complete installs.

@SidedTech

I am running a new install of Virtualmin

having misread your clear minimal indication I was also under the assumption of a clean NEW Virtualmin Installation.

[SidedTech]

No worries, I think it was a rough day for everybody

I decided to go with a full reinstall, as I wasn’t able to add Spam and Virus Delivery to the Server Configuration Portion of the Virtuamin side, so now my concern is, what do I delete so I can keep spamassassin, but otherwise have a “minimal” installation? Do I delete ClamAV via command line, or do I just un-enable the module? I just want to know also if there is anything besides ClamAV

The reason I use minimal (and i know this is going to sound kind of dumb) is because for some reason, my servers notify me of downtime EVERY OTHER DAY when I use the full install, unless I opt for a 2 Core 4 GB VPS, and then it’s every other week.

When I do minimal install, the site(s) seem to do something that makes them very stable. I don’t know why, but minimal I will see no downtime, and with full install, I have to Google “How to get Ubuntu to automatically reboot every day at a certain time” or risk going down consistently.

Probably my fault, as not a lot of people have the same issue, but I run 11 servers for me, and my clients, and every one goes down like a sack of potatoes when left alone for 2-3 days. Never was able to figure it out, and since SpamAssassin install only gave me the module, not the Spam and Virus Delivery menu item in Virtualmin, I figure there’s probably only 5-6 things to change / remove.

Let me know if we know what they are, and if removing clamav by rm rf is as good as any other method.

THANK YOU GUYS!

[jimr1]

How much ram have you got on the system ?

[Joe]

@SidedTech

what do I delete so I can keep spamassassin, but otherwise have a “minimal” installation? Do I delete ClamAV via command line, or do I just un-enable the module? I just want to know also if there is anything besides ClamAV

Unless disk space is at a premium, I would just disable the AV feature in features and plugins, and make sure no clamav/clamd services are enabled to start on boot (you can look in Bootup and Shutdown or just use the systemctl command. (They are not started by default, though. Unless you say yes to ClamAV in the wizard, we don’t start it automatically. We assume most people will not use ClamAV, as it is not small enough to be usable on the small systems the majority of Virtualmin users have).

If disk space is at a premium, you should always use your package manager to remove things, including the ClamAV packages. Never randomly delete commands. We install everything in a Virtualmin system, including our packages, using your system package manager. You’d be wise to do the same.

Besides that, the commands aren’t the thing that is huge. It’s the virus database. The commands are tiny little nothings compared to the database. Deleting the clamav commands will do almost nothing to reclaim disk space.

ClamAV is the biggest thing in a Virtualmin install right after installation, by far. Once you add domains and apps and databases, that balance might shift, but in the beginning the 1GB footprint of ClamAV is more than everything else combined.

If you’ve been enabling ClamAV on small systems, well…you can’t do that, you don’t have enough memory. But, you don’t need a --minimal install to not enable ClamAV. The setup wizard asks if you want it, all you need to do is say no. And, at any time you can disable the AV feature and stop the service. There is no magic about a fresh install. It’s just easier if you don’t know what the install script and wizard is doing.

SpamAssassin can also be pretty big, especially if you get a lot of mail and use the standalone version instead of the daemon version. In the standalone case, every mail that comes in would start a new instance. If you get almost no mail (like one or three a day) that maybe makes sense, but if ever you’ll have several mails come in at once, you need to use the daemon version. (Now imagine trying to use the ~1GB clamscan command on-demand.)

Otherwise you just need to be aware of where you memory is going. Guessing is a real slow way to solve problems. You have top, you have the process list in Webmin, you have htop, you have ps, you have all sorts of tools even in the base system.

[Stegan]

@SidedTech

for some reason, my servers notify me of downtime EVERY OTHER DAY

That must be some setting or “rule” of the box provider have you asked them?

@SidedTech

4 GB VPS

That seems very minimal to me especially for 11 VS (even more so for production status servers) I understand not wanting ClamAV (who wouldn’t) but I’m not sure what impact removing it would actually have unless you have indicated its use during post install. I have always thought (perhaps mistakenly) that unless to specify things like ClamAV, Apache, PHP then they simply reside as optional install scripts and take up very little disk space until “installed”.

[SidedTech]

Oh, I meant 11 different servers, as in 11 VPS, I only have 1 website on 2 CPU / 4 GB, and I know that’s overkill because I’ve been running websites on 512 MB without a panel, so I can’t imagine a panel and SpamAssassin are going to kill the other 3.5 GB.

Other than ClamAV though, if there’s anything “running” like the firewall or something that normally wouldn’t be installed or “running” in minimal, is what I am curious of, because like I said, minimal install - site never goes down, and regular install with ClamAV disabled, site goes down regularly, and I don’t know why. Probably my fault for never finding the logs myself.

[SidedTech]

Disk space is always good, usually a 64 GB NvME SSD running a site with 10GB of Data and the rest unnecessary and unused. My concern is the 4 GB of RAM (and sometimes 2 GB, and as I just told someone, I am used to running everything headless, because I thought cPanel was stupid, and did not know about CentOS, CyberPanel, VestaCP, etc

However Virtualmin may have given me a lot of issues, I still think it’s better than cPanel, and I even have my more affluent clients pay for their copy of Vmin just so there’s support there.

I was just curious if there was anything else to uninstall.

--------- ALSO I have a new issue ----------

So I installed Spamassassin, and it seems to be working, but Procmail says it was “in the way” and now I have to use Spam module under “Email Settings” as Spam and Virus Delivery under Server Configuration is no longer there (which makes sense as Email settings is global, and Server Config is per server)

I get this message under the webmin module now that I fixed the procmail issue:

Warning! SpamAssassin does not appear to be set up in the system’s Procmail configuration file /etc/procmailrc, so any configuration done using this module will have no effect unless users have it set up individually.

I think it’s running though, however i cannot be 100% sure, as no spam has come through yet, and I don’t even know if I did configure everything directly.

I had reinstalled Virtualmin full install, and then saw your comment, and didn’t even realized I missed it (I thought this WHOLE conversation was yelling at me for expecting a working spamassassin, but after your command + the Webmin module thing, it seems to be working with the following picture)

[Joe]

@SidedTech

I get this message under the webmin module now that I fixed the procmail issue:

Warning! SpamAssassin does not appear to be set up in the system’s Procmail configuration file /etc/procmailrc, so any configuration done using this module will have no effect unless users have it set up individually.

No, don’t do that. Virtualmin sets it up per-user and per-domain. I’m confused how you’re seeing that message, though. If Virtualmin’s postinstall wizard was run and SpamAssassin feature enabled, this message would be hidden.

[SidedTech]

It is only shown when the system is configured through minimal, and then SpamAssassin added afterward. I don’t enable it, but the issue is more with the Spam and Virus Delivery menu option missing altogether when installing on minimal.

Like I said, I saw your comment and restored the minimal install, and decided to see if we could get spamassassin working, but for now I don’t think so.

[Joe]

Did you Re-Check Configuration after installing SpamAssassin?

[SidedTech]

Yes I have this under spam and virus scanning under email settings

This under webmin

And so far I have no spam being filtered at all, so it “looks” like things are working, but for some reason no Spam & Virus Delivery page and it’s not behaving as expected (I usually have tons of spam for one of the emails, and they are going straight to inbox, and there is no spambox from what I can see)

Usually hit “move to” and place some spam manually, and a classification set to 4 gets 95% of it usually.

I can back things up and move to a full install probably but I am hoping I can figure it out so this page pops up in Google for spam assassin issues virtualmin minimal install etc