Everything's on sale! (AKA $99 Virtualmin and Cloudmin starting price)

Howdy all,

We’ve been talking about how to get more people using Virtualmin and Cloudmin, as that’s always been our primary measure of success (which is why so much of what we build is free and Open Source). And, it seemed that the biggest single issue for many people is price. So, we’re trying an experiment to see if a lower price across the board will allow more people to make use of Virtualmin Professional and Cloudmin Professional.

So, until the end of the year (and maybe longer, if this experiment works out), Virtualmin 10 and Cloudmin 10 are $99. That’s $40 and $50 off of the price we’ve been charging for nearly the entire history of these products.

Also, as a thank you for being our customer at the old prices, we’ll be giving away Cloudmin for Physical Servers to any existing Virtualmin Professional customers (those who bought Virtualmin at the previous price) who’d find it useful (i.e. if you have more than one Virtualmin server and would like to centrally manage them). And the price of that product for new users has dropped to $49.

Further, Cloudmin Services, our new product for Cloudmin Professional, will be available for free to existing Cloudmin Professional customers (those who bought at the previous prices) and will be available for purchase for new customers in the store soon, also at a lower price than we’d originally planned (I believe we’re now planning to price it at $99). Cloudmin Services allows you to have central DNS, database, and other services for all of your Cloudmin/Virtualmin hosts. It’s really cool, and a huge time saver.

Our sales always get slow at the end of the year, so this is a way to hopefully help us pay Eric a nice Christmas bonus, and still have some money to pay our salaries. And, heck, who knows…if things go well, and we find we make enough extra sales to make up for the lower price, maybe we’ll keep these prices past the end of the year. So, tell somebody about the sale!


So – how do I get the free Cloudmin for Virtual Servers license if I already hold Virtualmin licenses? I don’t see any way to do it in the store?

Thanks for being a long-time Virtualmin customer! I’ve issued you a Cloudmin for Physical Servers license.

Feel free to let us know if you have any questions!


As a VMpro user how do i get the free cloudmin pro license?

I’ve issued you a Cloudmin for Physical Systems license. Thanks for using Virtualmin!


I’ve issued you a Cloudmin for Physical Systems license. Thanks for using Virtualmin!

Awesome! I appreciate the new, lower prices and to show that appreciation, I’ve just put in an order for an annual 50 domain license.

After having been a VirtualMin user for a long, long time, I can now say that I’m thrilled to be using the Professional edition (and get all the benefits that come with it)!

Thanks, we appreciate it!


If you want to sell it, sell it for multiple domains on multiple servers.

Crock of gold waiting.

100 domains on as many servers as we like. Be a killer that.

100 domain limit etc or whatever. Take the lead.

You guys are in California and Jamie works for Google, do the code.

I cant charge clients 100 euro for a guy who wants a dedie, run one site and want wordpress installed automatically, even if he is a fool.

Is the opensource side of wm & vm a joke? In respect your just really into pro?

Getting sick of this crap, why not offer licenses for multiple servers?

I mean, what does it matter what server it is on?

Also upgrade you websites, geez getting embarrissing pointing clients here, pretty sure you have some money to spend.

You just seem to be thinking your end at the moment.

I agree with Welshdude. Though think I saw a goat once, writing politer posts than his… Also offtopic…

Also upgrade you websites, geez getting embarrissing pointing clients here, pretty sure you have some money to spend.

I wish we did have money to throw at the website problem. But, we don’t. We’re three guys, all of whom have other sources of income to make ends meet.

I’m working on a migration to Drupal 7 right now. I don’t know exactly how long it’ll take…it’s like moving to a whole new CMS, effectively, since there is no in-place upgrade (I’m really disliking Drupal for this fact).

“You guys are in California and Jamie works for Google, do the code.”

I’m in Texas. Eric is in Pennsylvania. I lived in CA for a while soon after the company started, but moved back to Texas, partly due to real estate prices. Yes, Jamie is amazing, does live in California, and Google is extremely lucky to have him. I’d love for him to be able to work full-time on Virtualmin, Cloudmin, and Webmin, but we simply don’t have the revenue to do it.

“Is the opensource side of wm & vm a joke?”

What do you mean?

There is no other side of Webmin. It is 100% Open Source and always will be.

And, we provide 95+% of Virtualmin for free to anyone under a very liberal license. What more do you expect of us? We’ve been working on this stuff for 15 (me), 16 (Jamie), and 10+ years (Eric). Often for no pay, just because we like working on Open Source software and helping people. I’m genuinely baffled at what more we could be doing to make you happy and not consider it a joke? Virtualmin GPL is feature-comparable to both of our major proprietary competitors, and tens of thousands of people use it every day.

Honestly, we have probably made too much of Virtualmin available for free…our sales peaked a few years ago, before we merged several of the big features from Professional down into GPL, and while growth of users has been steady and even increasing, sales have been in decline. So, for us, more uses means more support requests, more bug reports, from more users, for less money. We’re like the underpants gnomes…we haven’t figured out what the ??? step that comes before “profit!” entails.

Webmin saw 3 million downloads last year; its biggest year ever, and we don’t expect it to decline in 2015. Virtualmin is managing tens of thousands of servers…maybe over 100,000, and definitely more than at any point in history. But, and this is a big but, only a tiny percentage are using Virtualmin Professional.

I never complain about that balance of usage here on our site (until now), because it’s not my primary goal in working on Virtualmin to make a ton of money; but, seriously, it’s incredibly frustrating to have been doing this for so long, for so little, and to have it dismissed so readily or have it suggested we’re greedy for not giving more away.

I’m happy to have Webmin used by something on the order of a million people (hard to say with precision, since we can never know how many downloads happen outside of the SF.net servers). That’s amazing. I’m not complaining about it.

And, I’m happy to have Virtualmin GPL used on something on the order of a 100,000 servers (again, hard to guess at precise numbers, but this is not an unreasonable guess based on numbers we can confirm).

I’d like it if more folks found enough extra value in Virtualmin Professional to pay for it. And, we’re always trying to find ways to make Professional worth paying for without harming the experience of GPL users…we genuinely want Virtualmin GPL to be a quality tool that works as well as any commercial competitor. And, we want to make enough sales to keep doing what we do, or more of what we do, preferably.

Maybe in the new year, with two great new themes (Ilia’s Authentic theme and my Bootstrap theme), a new Drupal 7 website with a better shop and the ability to pay month-to-month, and a new Webmin 2.x branch that will deprecate a lot of old stuff and reduce complexity some to improve ease of use, we’ll see an influx of new users, hopefully some with a little disposable income to spend on a supported product with a few extra features.

I’m sorry you’re unhappy with the way we’re doing it. We’re genuinely doing the best we can, with the people and skills and time we have available.

We do welcome help. The Webmin wiki has been recently migrated to MediaWiki (by me), and the docs there need a lot of attention, and I know you have experience enough to be helpful there. I always welcome help on the theme I’m working on (it’s in our public github at https://github.com/virtualmin/virtualmin-bootstrap-theme ). I’ve reached out to some friends of Virtualmin who have more experience with Drupal than I; hoping that’ll make the transition to Drupal 7 easier/quicker. We’re working on modernizing Webmin’s codebase, which is a long, hard, tedious slog…a half million lines of Perl of varying ages and quality.

And, if you have better ideas for making Virtualmin profitable, we’d love to hear it. But, I’m afraid selling half as many licenses won’t solve our fiscal problems (I’ve done the math on multi-server licenses…they’d either have to be quite expensive, or we’d take a huge revenue hit; currently, most of our users have multiple licenses…a multi-server license would simply mean they’d purchase fewer licenses, possibly a lot fewer).


Just my two cents on the topic.

I’m right there with Joe on point with regards to the feedback, and state of things. Honestly, I’ve been working with Webmin and later Virtualmin for around a decade now and have seen the transitioning phases of development, growth within the company and know that these guys don’t just “talk the talk”, they do truly “walk the walk”.

Running a successful project like this with the numbers they reach normally takes dozens if not more active users to make possible. Yet, aside from a lot of community support for which I know everyone is happy there is (Jamie, Joe, Eric, and the people who need the help), there is really only 3 people doing the core of the work.

I speak from first hand experience having personally assisted dozens of users over the past year that there is only so much time in a day. Noting that Jamie, Joe and Eric put in way more time than I do on the topic of support, topping it off with on-going development which sees a product release often as frequently as every month is absolutely amazing!

My small contribution toward this community has been met with praise from all sources including and definitely not limited to Jamie, Joe and Eric which speaks to where their heads are at in terms of appreciation and wanting to give back. It’s for that reason that I have come to respect these fine folks greatly.

All said and done, we understand your frustration and Joe’s point on sharing other ways they can make the products and services profitable is once again his way of say “I’m listening, and want your feedback”.

But, a rule I learned long ago which I feel applies here today is, “Don’t Bring Up a Problem Unless You Have a Proposed Solution”.

This is something I share with customers when they simply complain. That is, I’m not opposed to change, but put yourself in my shoes is what I tell them… “If there’s a better way something can be done please let me know so everyone can benefit”.

Jamie/Joe/Eric, all I can say is keep up the amazing work!

*** take whatever you can from negative feedback and use it toward building a positive solution *** Best Regards, Peter Knowles TPN Solutions

Email: pknowles@tpnsolutions.com
Phone: 604-782-9342
Skype: tpnsupport
Website: http://www.tpnsolutions.com

Ask me about my new support plans which include a FREE copy of Virtualmin Pro!!!

Whoa, the Welshdude really got to you :slight_smile:

Don’t worry though, I still love you guys :slight_smile:

But. I for myself (leave the other things he mentioned aside) still feel this so Oracleish and Windowish and VMwareish for you to sell Virtualmin licences linked to a server. This is bullshit and I always said it (searched my older posts, can’t find 'em… whatever, maybe were support tickets) at least because you are selling CLOUD/HOSTING products.

I remember that everytime I have to migrate the domains and preparing a new server, and I have 2 servers running with the same license, one of them gets the red message, usually the one still in production. Just an example.

This is not “love” for your users who should be able to move domains all over the place, between physical, and virtual machines also, into a predefined number of domains - please explain how will that ruin you income, I don’t get it…

But I can explain to you how this is ruining my love for you: I am now to add 5 more servers, 2 for virtualmin; and I have to come up with some kind of a stupid scheme about how to fracture the number of domains for each server and also allow growth on each of them; why is that once again? Just another example. And of course I am joking - still love ya!


Of course I will still use your products no matter what decision you are taking here. Because it is in your right to conduct business as you see fit, and you should always do so. And BTW I don’t think you are greedy, or some corporate monsters, or that you are not true to Open Source, none of that.

As for the monthly payments - I for myself am not interested in that at all. Marketing and eye-candyness is what you are lacking. Also get on the social networks, even if you hate them. If you ask me, Webmin&Co products are being kept as “the little dirty admin secret” by everyone. And until you make a huge boom out of them, it will remain exactly the same.

Cheers. And just think about it, if there is a problem with your licensing scheme, it is the Virtualmin one.

I, too, occasionally have bad days. Welshdude caught me when I was wearing my grumpy pants. :wink:

I took a walk and thought more about it last night, and we’ll give something along those lines (i.e. Virtualmin for up to X domains on Y virtual machines", or similar) a try when the new website goes live. It will take some changes to our license manager, so there will need to be some code written, so it’s not something I can just “turn on”. And, I will need to do math to figure out what we need to charge for such a creature. We’ve wanted to offer virtual machine license pricing for a while, but the problems of detecting virtual machines, and the fact that some virtual machines are more powerful than some dedicated servers, proved difficult.

The reason all those companies do per-server (and even per-CPU or per-core) pricing is that it’s historically a useful proxy for value. Someone doing enough work to need to run the application on a dozen servers with multiple 8 core CPUs each is getting a lot more value out of it than someone running it on one server with a single dual core CPU, and will be likely to require more support over the long haul. It’s not guaranteed to be a correct proxy for those things…but, it’s hard to come up with better proxy for that information than the combo we have now, which is # domains + # servers.

We have always wanted prices to be fair and affordable, especially for hobbyists and people just getting started with hosting their own stuff, but high enough to get us paid enough to be able to pay for stuff like design assets, colo space and bandwidth, and keep our salary high enough to where we can devote significant time to the project. We’re not being stubborn, just trying to work out how to make it work. We don’t want to commit to something that will end up not working out for some reason.

But, I can see a multi-server license being workable. We’ll obviously have to charge more…probably about twice what a current license costs for the same number of domains (on the, I think, fair assumption that Virtualmin on multiple servers will incur more support and resource usage), but it’ll end up being far cheaper than, say, five or ten Virtualmin 10 licenses for five or ten servers.

Does that seem like a reasonable direction?

Geez :slight_smile: I live in France and if you don’t complain you will get no where.

That’s sounds superb and a leading of the way.

I do apologise for kicking up a fuss but hey :slight_smile:

I so much want to buy the Pro version, probably 500 domains etc, the infinite would be nice but you will will have abuse issues I guess to deal with.

Sounds great Joe and a move forward.

A lot of us don’t mind paying for a great system, I just use the gpl at the moment mainly because of the one license one server thing

I am sure there are so many people who will stop using gpl and go Pro and pay for it? Must be a good thing.

Brilliant Joe.

Actually I do apologise.

Rough day.

Thanks for what you do and all your fast support.

Real bad day and should not have vented here.

I personally think that combining a month-to-month licensing model and a multi-server domain limit could considerably increase your revenue. I’d have said this for month-to-month license alone, but multi-server licenses would make Virtualmin Pro an even more powerful product to use in larger/more professional environments.

In the day and age where VPS are taking the lead over dedicated servers more and more, I can honestly imagine someone spreading his 100 customers across 10 VPS for the sole purpose of segregation, resource control, and maintenance purposes. Paying about twice the price of a 100-slot license where that person would have otherwise needed 10x 10-slot licenses is a small price to pay, whereas that person would have probably thought twice about this setup when he or she would have had to buy those 10 licenses.

Just my 2 cents :slight_smile: