VM Pro, Typo3 and fcgi

Hi,

we are currently running several servers hosting Typo3 webspaces. We want to switch the control panel and we think this is a good moment to also change PHP execution from mod_php to fcgi. Virtualmin Pro seems to be a good choice. Up to now I only had a closer look at the GPL version (under Debian 5) and thus there are some fundamental questions that have to be clarified before we are finally convinced that it is the right decision to use VM Pro in future.

  • Obviously there is no script installer for Typo3 yet. Do you plan to provide one in the near future? Under http://www.virtualmin.com/forums/virtualmin/typo3-installer.html this question remained unanswered up to now.

  • In the GPL version (always assuming a Debian 5.0 install) suexec’s docroot is set to /home, userdir to public_html/cgi-bin. In Typo3 we need certain add-on applications like ImageMagick, which usually reside under /usr/… . When using the Pro version, would we have to install apps like these in each webspace or would it be possible to implement a configuration that enabled us to deploy a central installation that could be used by all Typo3 webspaces. The same question as regards Typo3 itself: Would it be possible to store the Typo3 libraries in a central place outside the webspaces (so that we could perform a Typo3 version upgrade once for all webspaces)?

  • Does anyone has some best practices, notes, hints or even warnings concerning the use of Typo3 under VM Pro? I didn’t find much about Typo3 in the forum and I wonder if this is a good sign :wink:

Thanks for your answers

Martin

- Obviously there is no script installer for Typo3 yet. Do you plan to provide one in the near future? Under http://www.virtualmin.com/forums/virtualmin/typo3-installer.html this question remained unanswered up to now.

The forum isn’t a useful place to ask for new features…Jamie doesn’t read them. :wink:

Folks who open a task in the ticket tracker for addition of a specific script tend to get it in the next release. It depends on how popular the application is, and how easy it is to support. If the application has a sane upgrade process and policy that’s also helpful.

Typo3 does seem to be reasonably popular, so if it doesn’t add dependencies and has a good update process, then it’s very likely it would be added if you asked for it.

- In the GPL version (always assuming a Debian 5.0 install) suexec's docroot is set to /home, userdir to public_html/cgi-bin. In Typo3 we need certain add-on applications like ImageMagick, which usually reside under /usr/...

No problem. These are not chroot environments (in GPL or Professional). The normal system library paths are correct. ImageMagick works fine in its normal location, and many of the currently supported applications use it.

The same question as regards Typo3 itself: Would it be possible to store the Typo3 libraries in a central place outside the webspaces (so that we could perform a Typo3 version upgrade once for all webspaces)?

And the answer here is no. That’s not really sane from a maintenance/upgrade/customization perspective, anyway. All applications get full installs in their respective virtual server. So, the application lives in public_html or cgi-bin. We’re not going to hack a bunch of stuff to make the application aware of a shared path. That’d be asking for trouble (and we have a strict policy against asking for trouble…with as many apps as we support, trouble finds us often enough on its own).

- Does anyone has some best practices, notes, hints or even warnings concerning the use of Typo3 under VM Pro? I didn't find much about Typo3 in the forum and I wonder if this is a good sign ;-)

I don’t know of anyone specifically using it. But, if it’s like most PHP applications, you shouldn’t have any trouble. We strive to make the Virtualmin environment as close to ideal as possible for running applications safely and without a lot of hassle for the end user.

Zenon wrote:

- Does anyone has some best practices, notes, hints or even warnings concerning the use of Typo3 under VM Pro? I didn't find much about Typo3 in the forum and I wonder if this is a good sign ;-)

A customer of mine is running Typo3 without problems (could not convince him to use Drupal though…).

Only thing he asked was to raise PHP’s memory_limit. His site is running well so far.

Joe wrote:

The same question as regards Typo3 itself: Would it be possible to store the Typo3 libraries in a central place outside the webspaces (so that we could perform a Typo3 version upgrade once for all webspaces)?

And the answer here is no. That’s not really sane from a maintenance/upgrade/customization perspective, anyway. All applications get full installs in their respective virtual server. So, the application lives in public_html or cgi-bin. We’re not going to hack a bunch of stuff to make the application aware of a shared path. That’d be asking for trouble (and we have a strict policy against asking for trouble…with as many apps as we support, trouble finds us often enough on its own).

Well this feature is already in TYPO3: TYPO3 offers so called "symlink"-installs, where the core can rest in a central position symlinked by the different webs. One simply has to use the tar.gz-files (not the zips).
So simply put the core (the typo3_src-4.X.X) somewhere central (with read-access for everyone)
In each web let the typo3_src symlink point to the central installation. We do that here with many webs.
Upgrading than normally goes like this:

  1. Extract the new version next to the old
  2. point the symlink to the new version
  3. run the install-tool of TYPO3 and go to the Upgrade Assistant and Database-Check modules
  4. repeat 2+3 for each web to be updated…
- Does anyone has some best practices, notes, hints or even warnings concerning the use of Typo3 under VM Pro? I didn't find much about Typo3 in the forum and I wonder if this is a good sign ;-)

I don’t know of anyone specifically using it. But, if it’s like most PHP applications, you shouldn’t have any trouble. We strive to make the Virtualmin environment as close to ideal as possible for running applications safely and without a lot of hassle for the end user.

As said above, we use TYPO3 with many different virtual host with Virtualmin GPL, no problems here. (Yes, the memory-limit has to be raised, but that is independant from VM, CPanel or whatever is used :wink: )
(Only thing with the GPL Version: fcgi has to be configured by hand, but that is not that hard either :wink: )
Another hint: A PHP-Opcode-Optimizer/Cacher is very recommended, we use eaccelerator here.

Well this feature is already in TYPO3: TYPO3 offers so called "symlink"-installs, where the core can rest in a central position symlinked by the different webs. One simply has to use the tar.gz-files (not the zips).
That's it.

Our Typo3 guru just said to me that it would be not soooooo important where to put the upgraded core, in a central place or into each web space separately, as the upgrade process has to be tested and overlooked anyway because certain extensions might not (yet) work with a specific newer version. So a centralized storage seems to have only limited advantages. But of course it would be easier to switch (back to the old) version by just switching the link’s destination. Furthermore security updates could be installed with less effort and it would save disk space.

Another question is whether an installer could also provide the means to upgrade an existing installation to a newer version at all or if it "merely" serves to install a complete fresh Typo3 instance (which would be useful anyway).

Security updates … that’s another point. I guess your installer scripts usually don’t provide the means to apply security updates!? Otherwise you probably wouldn’t get lucky :wink:

Folks who open a task in the ticket tracker for addition of a specific script tend to get it in the next release.
Excellent! I already opened a ticket, [url]http://www.virtualmin.com/index.php?option=com_flyspray&Itemid=82&do=details&task_id=5568&Itemid=82&string=typo3&project=1&search_name=&type[0]=&sev[0]=&pri[0]=&due[0]=&reported[0]=&cat[0]=&status[0]=open&percent[0]=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto=[/url].
It depends on how popular the application is, and how easy it is to support. If the application has a sane upgrade process and policy that's also helpful.
I think Typo3 should be an eligible candidate in all aspects indeed.

As concerns the popularity I can only sufficiently overview the German market for all-purpose enterprise-class open source CMS, but within that market Typo3 has become the most popular application in the last few years. Especially the 4.0 release has led to yet another boost in enterprise functionality and stability and thus also in popularity. A not so bad indicator for a system’s popularity can also be seen in the number of corresponding book titles and there are really a lot of them in German language, see https://www.amazon.de/s/ref=nb_ss_w?__mk_de_DE=%C5M%C5Z%D5%D1&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Typo3&x=0&y=0. And I suppose the situation is the same in other European countries.

It is good to hear that there exists such a direct channel between your users/customers and your development and support staff. With Plesk that’s all a mess.

BTW: Is Jamie the only core developer?

BTW: Is Jamie the only core developer?

There is a division of labor. Jamie is the primary developer of most of Webmin, Virtualmin, and Usermin, but there are other folks working on things. I do the theme work, and the installer. We’ve also got a guy who builds content styles (templates for the WYSIWYG website builder in Virtualmin Professional). There will probably be a JavaScript and UI hire in the not too distant future.

Security updates ... that's another point. I guess your installer scripts usually don't provide the means to apply security updates!? Otherwise you probably wouldn't get lucky ;-)

Of course. Updates are a big part of why this feature is useful! It’s just that some apps are better about updates than others…major version upgrades are rarely supported, for example (Wordpress is a notable exception, I think, but more complex systems like Joomla can’t be upgraded from 1.0.x to 1.5.x via Virtualmin).

Hello,

We use TYPO3 4.2.6 on virtualmin boxes with imagemagick with no issues. Only had to raise the memory limit for PHP.

We don’t use symlinks with the installs because of all the different extensions that can cause grief after upgrades.