Some questions before moving to VPS

General Discussion
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Hi all,

I’m facing a situation where I need to move to a VPS (using a shared host today), and I’m looking at some panels to use. Virtualmin looks really nice and capable to do what I want/need. There are a few things around the concept though I need to get my head around - I guess that will resolve it self when it’s time to start using it. But, there are few questions I’d like to ask.

The webmin/virtualmin/usermin-concept, and how that would translate to cPanel, which I’m using today. It looks like some of the features I have now in my cPanel (as an enduser), are partly in Usermin and Virtualmin. From searching around… I saw somewhere one could create a domain with Virtualmin, and then create a Webmin user, for that domain. Is that the way to go? The logged in user should be able to add domains, sub- and addon-domains, parked domains, etc… Including mail account and ssh-users (that’s one part I’m missing now - being able to setup more users that can ssh into the account, except the main account).

Are there any good guides for that? Been trying to look at some videos and guides, but I haven’t found one (yet) for that.

Another thing… I was trying to look at the login, and what’s behind it (passwords etc). Not sure if I read it correct but, it’s perl? using crypt (from Webmin)? While searching around the files, trying to find how the weblogin works, and how it’s made, I also saw the htpasswd here - and since it says “use WebminCore” at the top - I assume this file?

So, it doesn’t use all options/algos (ie bcrypt)? It’ looks very old ~ 2-8 years. Normally I use something like: htpasswd -b -C 10 passwdfile username password. Like the manual says… “The SHA and crypt() formats are insecure by today’s standards.”

If someone could elaborate a bit on what’s being used, and where (ie web login, password protected folders etc), I’d appreciate that. There’s nothing in the specs/docs or the FAQ.

If it’s to any help - here’s my plan. :slight_smile: As it is now, I have my site(s) on a very good host, but it’s a shared host. It’s really great, and almost like a VPS, but isn’t one. I can SSH in and I have basically everything, and I can install a few things as well. I now have the need of being able to create a git user (w/o a home) and chmod a folder to that one to install “Gogs” (a lightweight Github('ish) clone). But, since I don’t have access to root &/or sudo, I can’t do that. Their friendly support, who’s really been helpful, suggested that I should perhaps get a VPS. So, that’s where I’m at now. And I have been think of that for sometime even before… But, I haven’t found a good one yet - and theirs are kind of expensive - where the affordable ones are only 256MB/512MB. Not for CentOS, right? I’ve seen a couple of good ones though that I’m looking at, with better specs cmp to prices.

I’m sure I can get what I need if it’s only for myself, but since we also have another account, at the same host (my siblings/family is sharing that one), I’d like to bring that one along when I’ve setup/migrated my account. Which means I need to get a setup like I mentioned first. They’re kind of sensitive to “changes”. :slight_smile:

// There’s no “Live demo”, or is it? I tried this one: https://demo.virtualmin.com:10000/ (from here), but all logins failed.

Best regards, Eric

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If you go with VPS + any control panel you should get at least 2GB memory and 2-4 CPU cores (shared or dedicated). Second, if you never managed a VPS or dedicated server you must go with managed hosting or pretty soon something will go wrong, your server will be hacked and then your account terminated by your host. The question is not “if” but “when”. With shared hosting regardless how much freedom you have it will never come close to a VPS or dedicated, if nothing else because with VPS/dedi all the management and security its shifted from your host to you. Of course this is in case of unmanaged service/server as with managed the host will take this task.

When it comes to unmanaged VPS the prices are around 15-20$/mo while managed is 50-60$/mo for 2-4GB memory.

I’m telling you this because reading from your post i’m not sure you are capable to properly manage your server and so answering to your questions doesnt help anyone. But if i’m wrong please correct me.

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Thanks for your reply, and the info on resources. +1

With shared hosting regardless how much freedom you have it will never come close to a VPS or dedicated, if nothing else because with VPS/dedi all the management and security its shifted from your host to you. Of course this is in case of unmanaged service/server as with managed the host will take this task.

Yes, I’m aware of that, and why I’ve been thinking of shifting to a VPS for some time now. I can’t replicate all things of what I’m doing on my local test/dev server at home. If it wasn’t for my bad internet speed I’d gone with that one. We’re about to get fiber here (they say), but for now, hosting it from home is not an option.

When it comes to unmanaged VPS the prices are around 15-20$/mo while managed is 50-60$/mo for 2-4GB memory.

The VPS plans they offer are $34 w 1G RAM, and the double cost for 2GB. There’s a 512MB option for $17 that (maybe) could work. (there’s alo a cheaper 256 option). So, I’m looking at a couple of other hosts.

I’m telling you this because reading from your post i’m not sure you are capable to properly manage your server and so answering to your questions doesnt help anyone. But if i’m wrong please correct me.

Thanks. Well, the server part is not what I’m worrying about at the moment, it’s more how to set it up (user/roles/plans), in the panel, to mimic (sort of) what I/we have now. If it was just for me and my account (not the other one). I’d go without a panel, doing what I do now at home. It’s just when I try to read in as much as I can when chosing one, I find it hard to get around some parts of the concept, picture it in my head, how a setup would be. I guess most things would resolved by them self when you start install/using it. But, I like the reading/research part before I use anything. :slight_smile:

Then the other part was more of interest how the web login is made and what it uses for passwords. And about the htpasswd… At home I’m using a patched version that defaults to bcrypt. So, more of my own interest and just to exploring some options.

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If it wasn't for my bad internet speed I'd gone with that one. We're about to get fiber here (they say), but for now, hosting it from home is not an option.
Hosting from home will always be a problem. To start your ISP blocking majority of the ports usually used by your server, maintenance as you need to have quite few spare parts in case something breaks, UPS to keep up if electricity goes down but then your local phone/internet node will do the same, backups e.g. another server, electricity bill, no backup lines in case your local ISP decide for some repairs or upgrades... and so on. To put it short, you cant come even close to what majority of DC can offer.
The VPS plans they offer are $34 w 1G RAM, and the double cost for 2GB. There's a 512MB option for $17 that (maybe) could work. (there's alo a cheaper 256 option). So, I'm looking at a couple of other hosts.
This looks too expensive. I can suggest you one great company with servers in USA and EU where you will pay 50$/mo for fully managed VPS with 4GB memory, 4CPU cores, KVM virtualization and cPanel included (explanation at the end of my post***).
Well, the server part is not what I'm worrying about at the moment, it's more how to set it up (user/roles/plans), in the panel, to mimic (sort of) what I/we have now.
You can but actually you cant. Today almost every shared and reseller cPanel hosting comes with Cloudlinux and this is a "must have" if you want to be sure when some of your clients website go apes**t for whatever reason don pull down entire server. Sadly Virtualmin isnt compatible with Cloudlinux and even if you can force it with all manual installation and settings it will require too much dedicated time to handle simple updates to be worth considering this option. Even worst, CL is the only OS with such options on the market and there isnt any competition, so you must stick with CL. Dont take me wrong, i'm not bashing Virtualmin, just want to tell you what to expect if you go with this control panel. Virtualmin is great product (really is!) but i would never host more than one client per server (VPS/dedicated).

***Now server management and cPanel vs other control panels. Its a fact that cPanel took almost entire market, Plesk can be seen in traces especially with Windows hosting and everything else combined is just some small percentage. Like it or not, happy or not, understand why or dont… this is the situation for last several years and will not change anytime soon. Same thing you will have with hosting companies offering server management or if you go with unmanaged server then 3rd party management (e.g. different company than your host). In both cases majority will require cPanel as only option. This is if we speak about cheap and affordable prices, but if you are willing to pay 80-100+USD/month they you could find some 3rd party server management not asking for cPanel, but to be honest if you want real deal with SysAdmins capable to handle anything you are looking at 150-200+USD/month per server. Now you are free to check around but the situation is same for anything non-cPanel related.

Maybe this will sound strange to hear from Virtualmin fan but it is true, so you should know all this stuff especially if you are coming from cPanel reseller hosting.

P.S. Almost forgot to mention - One of the things i like with Virtualmin is you can throw almost anything to this control panel and it will work, especially if you have at least some minimum knowledge with server management. The freedom you get with Virtualmin i didnt saw with any other control panel and to be honest i love it because of that.

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Thanks Diabolico, a lot of great info there.

Hosting from home will always be a problem. To start your ISP blocking majority of the ports usually used by your server, maintenance as you need to have quite few spare parts in case something breaks, UPS to keep up if electricity goes down but then your local phone/internet node will do the same, backups e.g. another server, electricity bill, no backup lines in case your local ISP decide for some repairs or upgrades… and so on. To put it short, you cant come even close to what majority of DC can offer.

No, of course it can’t be compared to that. As for the ports, there’s no restrictions here what I’m aware of - not anyone I’ve bumped into, yet anyway. A UPS would be nice. But if I put a server online (permanent), I’ll probably go with a HP microserver (gen 7 or 8) or something like that, and I kan keep it running with a couple of batteries and a solar panel, or with the power generator. My router have a fail-over option. I can put a 3/4G USB-stick in it, just for those scenarios. And I think I read somewhere there was a DDNS option in the settings, right? But, before any fiber gets here, it not a plan to host it from home.

Same thing you will have with hosting companies offering server management or if you go with unmanaged server then 3rd party management (e.g. different company than your host). In both cases majority will require cPanel as only option. This is if we speak about cheap and affordable prices, but if you are willing to pay 80-100+USD/month they you could find some 3rd party server management not asking for cPanel, but to be honest if you want real deal with SysAdmins capable to handle anything you are looking at 150-200+USD/month per server. Now you are free to check around but the situation is same for anything non-cPanel related.

The idea, intially, was to find something equal in cost an spec’s, to what we have here. Since it’s more expensive than what we pay today (≈ $9-10/each account), I figure If I could find something ≈ $15-20 and then I could move both account to that one, and the costs will stay about same… I can of course go up a bit and take that xtra cost on my half. But I can only start moving my account, and I won’t move the other account until I have mine done, and until I know how the setup’s going to be for the other one. And there’s no stress to do it now.

The different VPS they offer, they list all of that as “optional” (CL, cPanel etc). I have to look more into it, of course… and on other hosts. Just been looking at it briefly so far, but I will definitely look into that with what’s allowed or not.

One of the things i like with Virtualmin is you can throw almost anything to this control panel and it will work, especially if you have at least some minimum knowledge with server management. The freedom you get with Virtualmin i didnt saw with any other control panel and to be honest i love it because of that.

Yes, it seems very capable, of most setups/situations. And that was related to the first question I had. Reading/seeing all kind of options and abilities …it’s kind of hard to get the head around some of the concept …when reading it (ie. the bag of candy is too big :)).

This will mabye be in a few months or so. I have a couple thing I need to finish first - and that will also give me more time/longer hours to do this. The live demo didn’t work - but that had been a great option - just to go in and look around. It’s one thing to read and another to see it.

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Eric F

I’d be happy to set you up a VM on the hosting service I run if you’d like to do some testing. Even if you opt to go elsewhere later. 30 Day trial, you have full control. Will even setup iptables firewall, fail to ban and non default admin ports if you wish.
I dont want it to seem like advertising on the forum, so email scotwnw at gmail dot com if interested.