Should the horizontal mode be made the default content layout?

[shoulders]

Sorry for the delay, I though I had replied. this is just a late follow up and not an attempt to pester the developers.

@Ilia

I don’t see the need to push users. Besides, the two themes function quite differently.

• the issue is these themes are more than themes because they have different code blocks for their functionality.
• Styling and features available (i.e.live stats block) should be done through the theme but they should both share the same code block.

@Ilia

I still don’t see the point in deprecating the old “Framed” theme. There’s no overhead in having it.

• They have different code bases so you have to maintain 2 themes and the behind the scenes code.
• If these were just themes with a shared common code block apart form the styling I would agree with you.

@Ilia

The old “Framed” theme could simply inherit the existing UI library. No need to delete it completely.

• The reason I say delete the framed theme is so you do not have to maintain a second code base reducing development time.
• If you moved all of the code out of the themes to a shared codebase then there would be no issue having the framed theme.

@Ilia

The old “Framed” theme could simply inherit the existing UI library. No need to delete it completely.

• Exactly, a shared code base reduces development and surface area for bugs and features.
• I would go one further, that also the code base for the functionality is moved out of the themes so these become proper themes (i.e. html, CSS, forms, ajax)

@shoulders

How about disabling all of the old themes on new installs?

• The ultimate goal is to reduce the user base using the old themes through natural attrition.
• There might be a few people using these old themes, there is no point having any more.
• User with one theme would get a better experience and support would be more unified
• Some of these old themes have had their day and need removing.

@Ilia

A theme is just a theme. It doesn’t hold back the progress of the project in any way.

• Because all of these themes have their specific code base for functionality so they are a drag on development because you get a particular issues on one theme.
• I think it does because the functionality code is actually in the theme so these are more than a theme but more like a page in virtualmin/webmin with all of the corresponding perl code.
• If the perl code is moved out of the theme into a separate code library/base then the theme would be a theme and then your premise would be correct that a theme did not take much to maintaining.

My thoughts

Moving the code base out of the themes into a common library is more important that redeveloping the themes styling, this could be done later and in fact would be much easier.

I know this is a lot of work and I am not saying drop everything to do it now but I think this should be part of the roadmap for Virtualmin (and webmin). It is up to the team to decide when (and if) to do this but the benefits are great.

Additional

I might not be using the right terms but when I say code base/functionality code I mean anything that is not styling related.

The shared code block would be responsible for building the forms and HTML as directed by the theme (ie put email form here) and then styled by the theme.

If you look at the repo here most of this is not styling but actually functionality delivered by Virtualmin

GitHub - webmin/authentic-theme: Official theme for the best server management...

[shoulders]

@Tactikast

The poll result is clear !

There was not that many people who entered the poll. I think there is a 100,000 users of virtualmin I think it was mentioned, well a lot anyway. So this poll will of just reflected us guys on the forum who already have polarised vviews.

@Tactikast

At this stage a new theme will not bring new comers. I

It would if it was part of a marketing campaign. Virtualmin needs to be aimed at the admin who does not want to mess with the internals of a server, this is what Webmin is for.

my thoughts

• When someone is googling around looking for a webhost management software and come across virtalmin their first question is what is webmin.
• All the other cpanels are a single product, but virtualmin is a separate product to webmin however virtualin is installed it installs webmin and this is confusing.

Webmin, Virtualmin, Usermin: Which one should I use? - Feedback from a Newbie

Hi, As a newbie, possible searching for a new home I found the following issues while looking at your software (Webmin/Virtualmin/Usermin). These are not a critisim but some feedback that might help you get more users and improve the overall experience and is meant as positive feedback only. My Background and setup I am a IT support guy who uses primarily Window but can manage to follow instructions for Linux. I run a CWP webserver at my home which has a couple of my own websites on it. I am …

bugs and features

If a user find bugs and is able to, detailed reports on GitHub are the way forward rather than moaning about things. I appreciate a lot of users cannot do GitHub reports which is fine and then the forum is a useful place for them.

[Ilia]

@shoulders

I would go one further, that also the code base for the functionality is moved out of the themes so these become proper themes (i.e. html, CSS, forms, ajax)

Sure, I’ll put it on my future me list!

The ultimate goal is to reduce the user base using the old themes through natural attrition.

Our strategy isn’t to enforce anything on users. They should be free to choose whatever they want, including sticking with older themes if they’re used to them.

[Tactikast]

The ultimate goal is to reduce the user base using the old themes through natural attrition

Please tell me I misread ? ISN’T ?

Is this a joke ? First 6 on 1 and you continue to argue … (And if there are not more members who vote it’s simply because it currently doesn’t matter for them, as I already explained )
Secondly if a marketing campaign concerning Virtualmin was about the layout !? There would be emergency to change of marketing manager (I know there are no marketing manager here, but it’s just for the joke).

What the point to have a community if the only thing you want is the virtualmin team match your habbits ?

All the other cpanels are a single product, but virtualmin is a separate product to webmin however virtualin is installed it installs webmin and this is confusing.

I agree on this point, 1 product would be much more clear (Simply have to check alternativeto.com to understand the mess).

When someone is googling

And I want to insist again on a very important part (I know it was not the concern of your topic). Your target is YOUTUBE (which is also google) but not the search engine. If you want someone to find you, you shall be on youtube. At least 80% of your sell will come from it (If you are not wellknown and can not get article from main “Journalist”).

[shoulders]

What the point to have a community if the only thing you want is the virtualmin team match your habbits ?

To have a discussion and put my point across

[Stegan]

@shoulders

I appreciate a lot of users cannot do GitHub reports

will not (or you tube, or google, or twitter/x)
so I agree

@shoulders

the forum is a useful place for them.

@Tactikast

As you can see in the poll

Poll (what poll - did I miss something ?)

[jimr1]

@shoulders

To have a discussion and put my point across

Just fork the project code your changes and push them back … I’ll guess you will say ‘not my project’ but it could be said you are not taking the concepts of open source on board and you should contribute code to the project and if accepted becomes part of the project which may or may not benefit everyone. Of course I do take into account that writing code maybe over your pay grade

[Tactikast]

@jimr1 I Agree with you.

I was going to say at shoulders: Create your favorite theme/layout (based on the current source) and send it to the team. They will be extremely happy to simply add it as an additional option. This is indeed the concepts of open source.

[shoulders]

As mentioned before this is not possible until the codebase is separated from the theme.

Early in the thread I did say that if this was done then users could submit their own themes.

Anyway I am leaving this one to the team as I have put my thoughts out there.

[Ilia]

@shoulders

As mentioned before this is not possible until the codebase is separated from the theme.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts — really!

Just to clarify, most of your ideas are reasonable, but implementing them overnight isn’t always possible.

Themes in Webmin are challenging.

Anyway I am leaving this one to the team as I have put my thoughts out there.

Thanks again!

[jimr1]

@shoulders

As mentioned before this is not possible until the codebase is separated from the theme.

Just work with what is current and make your changes perhaps in the future your changes become part of the project

[Tactikast]

The last posts may mislead newcomers so I precise that currently everyone can customise the Theme (It’s built in, no dev skills required).

It’s the layout (with already have 2 variants) which was under poll not the theme.

[jimr1]

My theme also looks very different to authentic however it does take a lot of ccs rules with !important moniker as the original css is loaded with that moniker for whatever reason. Please share your work