How do I set the primary domain on Virtualmin WITHOUT using one of my 50 allowed virtual servers?
I want to use the 50 for customers (seperate domains/accounts) and I shouldnt have to use one of them for the primary domain.
Thanks.
There is no “main domain” or “primary domain” in Virtualmin. Any domain Virtualmin is hosting is a domain you can use to login to Virtualmin, and if that domain has a certificate managed by Virtualmin, it’ll work in the browser without error (as that’s the cert that will be served when you connect with that name).
There was briefly a “default domain” (confusing terminology here, as it’s not the default domain for Apache) where the hostname of the system got an automatically created Virtualmin domain when possible (with no features other than web to allow getting a Let’s Encrypt certificate) that could be used in the way you’re asking, but that was a very confusing and mixed up concept and it’s been rethought a bit in the most recent version (still not right, getting closer). That domain did not count against the domain limit on a license. I don’t know what’s going on with that exactly. We’re kind of arguing through how that ought to look/work.
Webmin can also have a certificate (and can request one, assuming all the parts are working, including DNS) for any name that resolves to the system. Anything you do in Webmin is not subject to Virtualmin domain limits, including requesting LE certs for some other name for the system.
In short: If you want the “primary” or “main” domain to be a full-featured domain, with mail, apps, website content, databases, whatever, then it should be a regular Virtualmin domain and it will (and obviously should) apply to the domain limit. If you want a domain that is only for Virtualmin/Webmin, and will not send/receive mail, will not have any apps or website, then setting up the Let’s Encrypt cert in Webmin may be the right way for now. I’ll circle back with Ilia to see what’s been settled on (and if we can come to an agreement on it, as I think I still had problems with how he wanted to implement it).
Respectfully I dis-agree. I dont think the primary domain should count towards the limit as its neccessary for VirtualMin to function. You have Webmin which allows a person to host 1 domain and for free. Why would You take that away when someone upgrades to a VirtualMin 50 license and only give them 49? That’s not a concept I can get behind and if so I will start looking for different solution for my needs.
Now back to the answer to my question is it that its not possible to host webmin/virtualmin on my primary domain without using a virtualmin vps “credit”?
- Regards
I’m not sure we’re talking about the same thing. There is no specific domain that is necessary for Virtualmin to function. Virtualmin works on any name, and if there’s a certificate for a domain managed by Virtualmin, Webmin will serve it to the client.
If you want a domain that is just for Webmin (and Virtualmin) logins, without a website, mail, databases, apps, etc., then you can set that up in Webmin (and, of course, that’s free). If you want a “primary” domain that has a website, mail, databases, apps, etc. then that’s no different than any other domain, and counts toward the domain limit.
I think I need clarity about what you mean. Because you seem really mad about something that seems wholly uncontroversial (that a website with mail, databases, and apps, should count toward the domain limit in Virtualmin Pro) to me. So, I think we must be talking about different things, so I don’t know exactly what you’re trying to do.
I should maybe clarify that I think the best practice is to point your customers to their own domain to login to Virtualmin, e.g. https://customer-domain.tld:10000 for Virtualmin and https://customer-domain.tld:20000 for Usermin (or https://admin.customer-domain.tld and https://webmail.customer-domain.tld if you have those redirects enabled and DNS is correct for them).
Maybe Im wrong about how this functions but to my understanding …
Webmin is free and can be used for one domain name, files, webmail,etc on one server with no other domains on it.
Virtualmin is free and is used to manage all aspects of the server files and scripts on that domain.
Correct so far?
So now I have bought Virtualmin Pro 50 which means I should be able to do all the things that both Webmin and Virtualmin Free does PLUS more scripts and other features.
So if that is the case then why would I need to use 1 of my 50 licenses on my primary domain which should already be working using the free versions.
I should be able to have my primary domain as set in free version PLUS 50 that I can use for other domains or customers.
That is the way I understood it when I purchased. If its not like that then I need to rethink my license subscription.
- Regards
And, Ilia is implementing a thing to simplify creation of a “special” (I don’t want to call it default or primary or main, because it’s really just for the time before you have created domains in Virtualmin, so you have no browser warnings due to a self-signed cert) domain for Virtualmin/Webmin to get a Let’s Encrypt cert during installation. That will be a domain without any features (just like the briefly existing “automatic” domain that was in a couple of recent Virtualmin versions, but without most of the weirdness of that) that gets created during Virtualmin installation, and if the hostname of the system can be resolved (DNS) at install time, it will request a Let’s Encrypt cert and install it in Webmin, so you can connect to Webmin on that hostname without getting a browser warning.
Virtualmin GPL has no domain limits, that’s correct. Webmin also has no domain limits.
Virtualmin Pro has domain limits based on the license purchased. It’s just the best way we could come up with as a proxy for the value folks are deriving from Virtualmin. It’s not perfect, but it’s the norm in our industry. Virtualmin Pro provides all of its features to all domains hosted on the system it is installed on. You could create a domain (or any number of them) entirely outside of control of Virtualmin in Webmin (or manually in the config files). Nothing stops that. Domains/users/etc. created in Webmin won’t have Virtualmin features or GUI. But, there is no limit on anything you do in Webmin. But, there is no ability to call some domains “Virtualmin GPL” domains on a Pro system that don’t count toward the domain limit…it’s either a Pro system with domain limits or a GPL system without them (but without Pro features and Install Scripts).
The 50 domain limit is not a 51 domain limit. There are no special domains. It’s just whatever domains you host on the system, whether they are customer domains or your domains. Any domain with unique website content, databases, mailboxes, etc. counts toward that limit.
There will soon be a feature that sets up a Let’s Encrypt certificate on the hostname, again so the browser doesn’t give warnings on first login to Virtualmin. But, that’s not a full-featured domain.
I’m sorry, I guess, that 50 is not 51. The domain limits we setup are kinda arbitrary, but again it’s the best we could come up with in terms of trying to accommodate independent web developers as well as hosting providers.
We’re just trying to fund development here. We aren’t trying to make things hard for you or do shady stuff to extract more money. As far as I know, Virtualmin is the most affordable offering in this software category that’s got anywhere near the level of features and flexibility of Virtualmin (and with a reasonable security record); we’re not perfect, but we’re also doing this mostly as unpaid volunteer labor. Virtualmin does not make a lot of money, and we have other jobs.
If the way we’re licensing it doesn’t work for you, I understand and wish you the best with Virtualmin GPL. I hate that we can’t accommodate every use case exactly, but I don’t know how we could.
I have private messaged You. You may close/lock/delete this thread.
We call it host default domain. It is not counted against available domains in Pro license.
It simply creates hidden (by default) host.example.com domain with SSL certificate. It can be controlled in Virtualmin Configuration page, e.g.:
This domain can also be made “default” by moving its record to the top of the Apache config file. Alternatively, you could use Server Configuration ⇾ Website Options page and its Default website for IP address option, but to do that thought, you’d have to unhide default domain first. Be sure not to enable mail and other features for this domain. Keep it simple.
So I cant have mail or other features on my default domain? This is really confusing considering my domain works with webmin/virtualmin on ports 10000 and 20000 but the default domain homepage url doesnt work?
Ive used Plesk, cPanel, HestiaCP and DirectAdmin that I can think of off the top of my head for myself and customers and none of those are this difficult to setup the primary domain.
Look:
https://www.cyrushosting.com:10000 - Works
https://www.cyrushosting.com:20000 - Works
But:
https://www.cyrushosting.com (Homepage/Default) - Doesnt work unless I make a virtual server for it using one of my 50.
If I have something configured wrong please point Me in the right direction but if this is just the way Webmin/Virtualmin works then Im going to have to go with another CP.
- Regards
You should not name your server the same as something you’ll be hosting virtuallly in Virtualmin (don’t name your server www.cyrushosting.com, name it srv1.cyrushosting.com or whatever). This is in the docs and on the dowload page.
If you’re hosting a website/mail/etc. in Virtualmin Pro, it will consume a domain in Virtualmin Pro. That’s working as designed. Your company website is also a website.
cPanel costs $39.95/month for 30 accounts or $59.95/month for 100 accounts. Plesk costs $18.79/month for 30 domains and $32.54/month for unlimited domains. Virtualmin for 50 domains is $10/month, or, if you don’t want to worry about one more domain, the Unlimited domains license is $20/month…but 100 domains is $12.50/month.
If you want a website/mail domain/databases/etc. managed by Virtualmin Pro it will consume a domain.
And, yes, this is working as intended:
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My hostname is what I have Webmin installed/configured as per install directions
But the domain for public/client side is cyrushosting.com
- Regards
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OK, good, that’s correct. And, yes, a domain in Virtualmin Pro consumes a domain, no matter what it’s used for; whether it’s for your company website or your customer’s company websites.
The host default domain (still confusingly named, Ilia) is mostly just intended to be used to log in to Webmin/Virtualmin until you have websites in Virtualmin, so it can have an SSL certificate before anything else is setup; assuming the system hostname resolves, we can set all this up during installation and it can usually work and reduce the friction of getting started for new users that might be frightened/confused by a browser TLS warning.
“And, yes, a domain in Virtualmin Pro consumes a domain, no matter what it’s used for; whether it’s for your company website or your customer’s company websites.”
- How does Webmin work then if I can use the free version for (1) domain and I set it up on my server its free. If I upgrade to virtualmin then I only get 49? I guess the proper way is to first install Webmin Free Version then add my primary domain. Then after then use my unlock code to upgrade to Pro so that I will still have 50 domains available and my Webmin will still be on the domain I need to use? Would that work?
“The host default domain (still confusingly named, Ilia)”
- Call it the “root default domain” Problem solved.
“mostly just intended to be used to log in to Webmin/Virtualmin until you have websites in Virtualmin, so it can have an SSL certificate before anything else is setup; assuming the system hostname resolves, we can set all this up during installation and it can usually work and reduce the friction of getting started for new users that might be frightened/confused by a browser TLS warning.”
- I totally understand the reason for using the IP as the login due to the domain possibly not being connected properly. Using the IP as You have it setup now is fine and works fine. The problem (my problem) is that if Webmin has the capability to work with (1) domain name for free in order to properly setup a website then why cant the pro version use that same (1) domain capability and simply add 50 more domain capabilities to the server instead of making it (1) + (49)?
Finally users that would be frightened/confused by the browser warning during setup probably would be much more scared at some of the other issues and problems installing and configuring this software before they would worry about the SSL right from the start especially when it is noted during installation that SSL has to be setup on a real domain.
- Regards
You should not use the IP!
You should not do that. Virtualmin should be installed on a freshly installed OS. Don’t preinstall any software, including Webmin. And, you don’t need to.
You still have Webmin, regardless of the version of Virtualmin you have, Pro or GPL. It is always free, you are always free to use it to create any domains you want, and you can use it to request a Let’s Encrypt cert (or you can use certbot directly). Nothing is stopping you from creating a domain in Webmin. Nothing is stopping you from creating hundreds of domains in Webmin. Right now. Whether you have Virtualmin Pro or GPL. You don’t have to do it before installing Virtualmin Pro. But, the domains you create in Webmin will not be managed by Virtualmin.
You are not being punished. We’re not trying to be sneaky. We have no way of knowing what kinds of websites you’re hosting or for what purpose. We just provide very cheap license options with a lot of domains (relative to our competitors) so you don’t have to worry over one domain. If it’s a website managed by Virtualmin Pro, it counts. If it is not managed by Virtualmin Pro (e.g. if it is managed by you with Webmin or by modifying config files yourself), it does not count.
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I wasnt aware. So if I own all the domains I can add them into Webmin (not Virtualmin) and they wont count towards the 50?
- Thanks
Domains not managed by Virtualmin do not count toward the limit, no matter how you create them, including in Webmin. (But, obviously, they won’t be managed by Virtualmin, so you’ll be doing some more manual stuff than you would be for the domains managed by Virtualmin.)
But, maybe also ask yourself how much of your time is worth saving $2.50/month or $25/year. (That’s the price difference between a 50 and 100 domain license.)
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