Help a dummy out

[Joe]

@shoulders

Make the webmin and virtualmin script one script. So all users will use the one script and get prompted with the question above.

That feels like a decent option, though Webmin doesn’t have an installation script in the usual case (installed from a package from the repo).

It does however, have a repo setup script. So, maybe we want to make that script able to install Virtualmin, too.

But, honestly, if we just put this stuff on the web pages it would solve the problem for 99% of users, I think. The Webmin page says nothing useful about what all the projects do, and if it did, it would clear up a lot of confusion immediately.

[shoulders]

@joe one of the biggest marketing issues as mentioned above is that your assets are at different places and is confusing. The unified script is just part of the puzzle but I would also recommend just using a single website, webmin.com and have virtualmin and cloidmin have their own sections on there.

[Joe]

That’s a huge undertaking. Putting a little chart of projects and a description of what they do on the front page of Webmin.com and Virtualmin.com is an afternoon project and probably mostly solves it for most users.

[Steini]

Hello, find out which one you should download…

Webmin – The Core Server Control Panel

Install this if you want a web-based tool to manage your Linux server.
Perfect for system administrators who need full control over users, services, and configurations.
Includes: Apache, MySQL/MariaDB, PostgreSQL, BIND DNS, FirewallD/IPTables, Fail2Ban, SSH, Cron Jobs, Users & Groups

Usermin – The End-User Dashboard

A standalone tool designed for regular users, not system admins.
Install this if you want a simple interface for email, file management, password changes, and personal settings.
Includes: Postfix, Dovecot, SpamAssassin, Procmail, Read Mail, File Manager, SSH Login, Custom Commands
Note: If you install Virtualmin, Usermin comes included!
Can be installed alone without Webmin or Virtualmin.

Virtualmin – The Web Hosting Panel (Built on Webmin)

A module for Webmin that adds web hosting management features.
Choose this if you’re running multiple websites, managing domains, or offering hosting services.
Includes: Apache/Nginx, PHP, MySQL/MariaDB, Let’s Encrypt SSL, DNS BIND, Postfix, Dovecot, SpamAssassin, ClamAV, ProFTPD
Automatically installs Webmin & Usermin so website owners and email users can manage their own accounts.

Cloudmin – The Cloud/Virtualization Manager

A module for Webmin designed for managing virtual machines across multiple hosts.
Choose this if you need to deploy, monitor, and manage virtual servers across cloud or local infrastructure.
Supports: KVM, Xen, OpenVZ, LXC, Amazon EC2, and more.
Requires Webmin to be installed.

Still Unsure?

• If you’re a server admin, start with Webmin.
• If you’re a website owner or hosting provider, install Virtualmin (it includes both Webmin & Usermin).
• If you just need a user-friendly interface for personal tasks, go with Usermin.
• If you’re managing virtual machines or cloud instances, use Cloudmin (requires Webmin).

[Joe]

That’s pretty great, I wouldn’t change much.

[Steini]

Cheers! This wasn’t meant to be the final version, just a starting point to find common ground that we can work on together to make it easier for newcomers to get into the *min world.

The “Get Started” links should be listed right under each section.

Personally, I’d redirect all domains to a central one and use it for the different versions. Why have webmin.com, cloudmin.com, usermin.com, and virtualmin.com? Just for SEO?

[stefan1959]

@Steini

webmin.com, cloudmin.com, usermin.com, and virtualmin.com? Just for SEO?

Backlinking to each other would be a benefit for SEO.

I just had a look at usermin.com (I didn’t know it existed), looks a bit screwed up and no ssl.
Someone started and never finished

[Joe]

@Steini

Just for SEO?

Definitely not for SEO. We don’t spend any time or thought on SEO. We just try to make good software and document it well, and hope that consistently rises to the top of relevant searches.

We own the domains so no one squats on therm or spams with them.

[ID10T]

@Joe

That’s pretty great, I wouldn’t change much.

You mean open sores werkz?

[Jamie]

@Ilia

This could be a great and valuable improvement! @Jamie, what are your thoughts on creating a one-time notification alert on the dashboard for every Webmin admin user to briefly explain Virtualmin and its functions, and provide a link to the Virtualmin website?

That feels like an ad that would probably annoy a lot of users! But I do think we can link from webmin.com to virtualmin.com more prominently…

[Joe]

Yeah, I hate random popups and alerts, especially ones that seem like ads.

It just want some clear guidance in all the places a user might end up finding our software.

[stefan1959]

@Joe

We don’t spend any time or thought on SEO.

You must be doing something right as posts come up pretty quick in google. Maybe that’s part of the forum software.

[jimdunn]

Remember all those conversations about “change the name Virtual Server to something less confusing” ??? I know Joe is against it… but I think there are some fundamental things you should consider that are contributing to the overall confusion. I always liked “Virtual Domain”…

[ID10T]

@stefan1959

You must be doing something right as posts come up pretty quick in google.

The built in software search doesn’t seem to work well for me. I get better results searching from the outside. My guess is that many more people looking for answers first use an external search which leads them here. That accumulation of clicks is probably the key. I wouldn’t be surprised if less than one percent of the software users even have an account here. Most times they find their answer already posted.

[shoulders]

The forum search is weird. It will bring up posts from years ago as the first result. But it is a hassle to find anything with it, I end up using the search for a broad brush approach and then just open each link until I find what I want.

The advanced search can be better.

[Joe]

I’m not against it. I was the one who brought it up every time it’s been discussed (several times). I think we should rename Virtual Servers to something that has less potential for being confused with virtual machines (or Virtual Private Servers, which isn’t a super common term, but it does get used).

But, we’ve never come up with a good alternative that’s really convincing and everybody buys into.

[Joe]

@shoulders

It will bring up posts from years ago as the first result.

You can choose how to sort search results. I’ll see if I can make it prefer more recent posts, as that’s obviously the better choice for most questions when we have 20 years of conversations here, and anything more than five years old is probably suspect.

Edit: I can’t change the default sort order, but I’ve enabled an option to prefer newer posts in results, so hopefully that improves things (and I think that’s actually more what we want than changing sort order…we want the best match among recent results, generally speaking).

[shoulders]

The webmin module name should also be renamed as it is currently virtual-servers if I remember right.

[Ilia]

@Jamie

That feels like an ad that would probably annoy a lot of users!

If we do it once, with a simple but informative alert—similar to what we do in Virtualmin GPL—it could benefit both Webmin users (who might not even know about Virtualmin) and the Virtualmin community in the long run.

It’s common for companies to use one-time, unobtrusive notifications to promote related products. I’ve personally used apps that do this, and in some cases, it led to a win-win situation.

[shoulders]

I have no problem with push a notification for virtualmin to all webmin users, perhaps once a year, webmin is free but is supported by paying virtualmin users a lot of free time from the team.

A lot of other software does this. If a few webmin users are outraged that is their problem.