I would have not expected anything different to what’s already here to be fair, perhaps the OP has used other panels in the past and expects the virtualmin module (of webmin) to be a free clone of another panel, which it is not.
I am still awaiting to see use case for this change, I have looked through the default template & TBF the defaults in the template is exactly what I would have expected (hence I have never bothered even looking at them before) so now onto plans They work as expected you alter the plan & save it in this case those settings are applied to all new domains after the plan is saved or save & apply to change the settings in all existing domains that seems pretty straightforward to me.
This is then edited, after creation, in the edit virtual server page so far so good I guess ?
then we move onto edit owner limits, this is where you edit what the domain owner can see when they log in, which @shoulders if you have not already done so give it a go as user has a totally different view than a server admin, so in the screen shot the domain was created with just webmin login so the menus are sparse
I have used the ssl option to demonstrate the change when you edit owner limits & edit the virtual server
this is webmin log in only
after enabling it in edit owner limits you can see the edit virtual server has now appeared for the user
so as far as I can see the system works as expected.
lets say I have 3 plans (a,b.c) all the same except the quota, 1 change means to accommodate the ability to have owners to edit the virtual server my 3 plans have become 6 (a, b, c, a-edit-domain, b-edit-domain, c-edit-domain) on the thought at some time in the future someone on a, b or c may need this ability. As there are so many permutations you could end up with 100’s of plans to cover every eventuality. Where as the current system gives you reasonable defaults through it’s default template & plan it’s far easier to adjust the new virtual server at creation time and/or using edit virtual server and edit owner limits.
Yes, I am sure that would be the case. But that is not quite what I am hearing here.
My point is that documentation will never be up to date → program development is never under that sort of control (we all know that programmers/coders have no interest in it, they do what they are good at - fix bugs, add features, build systems) people who write good documentation usually have no interest in programming, approach the task with ignorance and naivety. In large software houses they work in parallel. But is rarely available in the native language of the reader. Even just look at the English (US) vs (UK) and Chinese vs English to pick just two examples.
But this is not a big software house. What we have is good enough → and certainly better than nothing.
Not me i can do both (programming and documentation). I do find (on my travels) writers can sometimes try and show off so the documentation only makes sense if you know about the topic in the first place. Documentation can be written in a way that it survives software updates, but not forever though. Write to teach newbies but serve as a reference for others.
Virtualmin documentation is lacking in some areas i.e. server templates, Account plans…
hence forking it, once you’ve gone over the code you may find you proposals would mean a major rewrite of the virtualmin module, which could take considerable time for very little gain (if any). As the webmin team is small this undertaking could take months perhaps years, I can not remember now how long it took to move from virtualmin 6 to virtualmin 7 but it was not a short period of time, perhaps if the webmin devs think your idea’s are good they will respond here, to date no one has
I have never used cpanel but way back when I used plesk, I seem to remember from that panel there were some overrides from the chosen plan, so perhaps the best way to go is to remove plans altogether, add what is missing in templates from plans, and call it “virtual server defaults” and allow tweaking from either “edit virtual server” and “edit owner limits” but to be fair I don’t have a problem with the current program flow and logic.
but to make even that change (removing defaults → templates) would impose setting up a template for each domain. unless there continued to be a “default template”
I am also against copying the “way they do it”. I don’t think that is a healthy way to progress. I personally don’t care about “the way” that cPanel or Plesk or any other alt system does it - if I did, I would be using that.
You have demonstrated that the proposal can be managed with the current system. I still think the OP has an edge case that perhaps needs a lot of programming and resting rather than a quick code fix.
Interesting discussion, bit complex for this time in the morning
writers can sometimes try and show off so the documentation only makes sense if you know about the topic in the first place
I am not sure that is a case of showing off, they just assume, maybe wrongly, that the reader knows a little bit more than they do which can be frustrating for the reader. It can be hard getting the balance right, the other option is treating the reader as an idiot who does not know anything.
It is always good to try and improve things but it really does depend on the workload put on others vs the benefit to the users. I have been using both the GPL and Pro versions for years and find it very easy to use, sometimes it takes a little more time to find something new or recall how I did something years ago that I have had no need for since, till now.
I would need to give some more thoughts to your idea of combining the Account plan with the templates, if they did I am sure one day somebody would be here suggesting it would be a good idea to split them
Copying the “way they do it”, is not always a bad thing, surely even Virtualmin is just that, a reinvention of the first domain hosting and website control panel, with a twist… I have seen others do something and thought to myself, that would make my life easier I could use that in what I do.
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I would need to give some more thoughts to your idea of combining the Account plan with the templates, if they did I am sure one day somebody would be here suggesting it would be a good idea to split them.
Server templates and account plans are already split. In fact they used to be together but the they were split after many requests from users. My solution is definitely not to re-combine them. These are two very different banks of settings and have different applications.
My preferred article style is, at the beginning you write a paragraph aimed at newbies to explain what a feature or function actually does and why you want it, then you go into more detail. This one paragraph (or so) can make learning a lot easier for newbie to use and then more experienced can use the article as a reference.
We have all seen those corporate videos advertising a piece of software, telling you how great it is and how it will improve your workflow, but they never tell you what the software actually does.
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but needed doing.